Curse

buzzerman · Oct 26, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I really can't understand people who complain about a PvE skill being overpowered. Even calling a PvE skill "overpowered" is nonsensical and actually dangerous thanks to the idiotic PvE nerfs which are trying to make a game (read: relaxing play time) *harder* than it is usually expected to be (by most casual players, yes).

And I am trying hard to see what's going in the dark minds of such people essentially asking for nerfs of PvE skills. Guys, if you feel a certain PvE skill is making the game too "easy" for you, hence not "challenging" enough for you, just stop using it - but, for entertainment's sake, please don't ruin it for the rest of us !

This also goes for those Anet people who made the idiotic move of nerfing PvE skills after they released them.. (after teasing PvE players with them, especially the underrated classes like Paragon). What's the point in doing that ?!? (Besides proving poor judgment in designing a skill in the first place..). You felt the game was unfair to .. what, the computer-controlled monsters in the game?!? Yes, many of us are casual players, we don't grind for hours to maximize our titles, and sometimes we do feel like playing mindless, relaxed, worry-free monster-bashing, while enjoying the gorgeous graphics of this game, getting some useful drops, and yeah, we do not care that those "poor monsters" are getting "unfairly" crushed by our "overpowered" PvE skills. Again, if it's too easy for you, change your build to a more "complex" one, to make the fight more exciting for you, hard-core gaming freak..

This thread (and PvE nerfs in general) is a shame for the principle of mass-entertainment that games are supposed to espouse. I can only imagine compulsive, addictive gamers (who probably have no life otherwise) complaining about PVE skill being too powerful in this game.

I found interesting what GloryFox wrote earlier. It's sad that Anet doesn't see how they can indeed lose customers due to excessive (and idiotic) PvE nerfing and instability, while it can be hardly imagined that they can ever lose customers due to "overpowered PvE skills".. What are they thinking?

Nadia Roark · Oct 26, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I tend to agree with buzzerman's thoughts on the issue. People used to complain when ANet took stuff away from us, now they complain when they give us stuff too.

I'll not disagree that Ursan is "mindless," but ANet isn't known for nerfing skills just because they're mindless (*cough*RaO*cough*) even though they've tried a couple of times.

I don't have this skill but I've been running in parties with it for a few days now. Yes, it's ridiculously powerful, but so what? For all the time and effort some of you have spent bitching about it, you could have farmed a fair bit of Norn points and started using it yourself. If you're going to get upset every time someone has something better than you, I got news for ya: life in general probably isn't going to be a very happy experience.

EDIT:

Also, concerning the "Casual Users" argument put forth by GloryFox...

If a player is only playing GW every so often--maybe every couple days or whatever--chances are he's not as familiar with the game as we are, right? It could be reasonable to assume that many "casual players" don't even know that Ursan exists, since most of them probably don't have it and I imagine the wikis are visited primarily by those (such as ourselves) with a greater interest in the game. Essentially you're trying to define your own parameters by arbitrarily deciding what the "casual player" even knows about--many of these people are unaware of what we perceive as basic gameplay features. And obviously, if he doesn't know about it, he won't quit the game over it. This may offend your sensibilities, but its true.

And if he does find out it's there, so what? If he doesn't want to grind out his title to use the skill, that's his own decision. And since so few of us PuG anymore, chances are he won't be marginalized by $PLAYERS who are only looking for Ursans for their team. I can see how it might push some classes out of certain endgame content, but if you've gone that far, chances are you're not a casual player anyway.

VitisVinifera · Oct 27, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

After some testing while vanquising the last 2 nights, I have to conclude, as a warrior, that me taking Ursan at rank 5 is actually not as effective as simply being a FGJ! Dragon Slasher.

This only really gets good when you have several people all using it, and it shouldn't be nerfed for those of us who use it normally

Voltar · Oct 27, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmFlip

they don't need to nerf PVE skills...why do people complain for these?

I'll propose once again my theory that all people are by nature dumber than dirt.

Cathode_Reborn · Oct 27, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Ursan is so weak compared to other overpowered pve skills/builds.

Avatar Exico · Oct 27, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

or Spam 1 over and over until foe dies or 3-1-1-1-2-always hit 4 for speed boost.

Whirlwind · Oct 27, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Ursan is only mindless if the person running it is mindless. There are a lot of possibilities with KD weaken and runspeed, and obviously ursan strike. Things you wouldn't normally come up with, but they are there. I guess it really depends on how imaginative the person running the toon is.

draxynnic · Oct 27, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

I see it as a problem if one skill is completely overshadowing the rest of the game. I'm not sure Ursan Blessing is doing that, but from what some people are saying, it's threatening to.

If in a year's time every group going into an elite area is six bears + two healers... then yes, it will need to be rebalanced in some way. Consider the first time you jumped into a junundu or a siege devourer - it's a lot of fun. After a while, though, playing the same critter all the time starts to get a little boring - I know that by the sixth or seventh time I put a character through the Desolation it was starting to get a little old.

By the same measure, you may be having a lot of fun going around ripping monsters apart with little difficulty now, but do you really want to be using that exact same formula a year from now, afraid to switch to another build because then you might actually be at risk of failing occasionally?

There's also the element that if six bears + two healers becomes the PvE metagame, it probably won't be too long before Norn title requirements also becomes part of it. Even though I don't try to PUG such areas in general, I'd rather not see R10 (or even RX+, where X is less than 10) Norn becoming a requirement to join groups like Lightbringer can be in the Domain of Anguish.

Lourens · Oct 27, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

what about volfen and raven blessing then?

Crom The Pale · Oct 27, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Any of the pve skills are over powered when you combine 8 live people using them.

Anyone try sending 8 Vanguard Sins against 1 target??

How about 8 shots of Alkars Acid vs a group of Destroyers?

8 Lightbringers Gaze.....

8 Summon Mursaat....

If you find the skill is over powered and makes things to easy then don't put it on your skill bar.

Untill they allow 7 heros and pve skills on heros they should leave the little tiny bost the pve skills give us ALONE!!!

ReZDoGG · Oct 28, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I don't see any reason to have any PvE title skills nerfed... especially blessings. If something is too easy, just go into Hard Mode? It seems they set the PvE skills into place so they won't be changed again...ever. heh.

Simath · Oct 28, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReZDoGG

I don't see any reason to have any PvE title skills nerfed... especially blessings.

When a skill can turn an elite area into a children's playground there's something wrong with that picture.

Nadia Roark · Oct 28, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

When a skill can turn an elite area into a children's playground there's something wrong with that picture.

The point here seems to be that Ursan doesn't do this by itself. Sure, yeah, if you run three or four of them things get a little easy, but the same thing can be said of running 3-4 invoke spikers, or 3-4 mixed melee spikers, 3-4 rangerspikers.... you get the point.

Also, it should be noted that in order to acheive maximum effectiveness, you have to do a fair bit of grinding, or turn in a couple HM books to get that title up. You have to work for it--it's not like they're just giving everyone an uber awesome skill to use at their leisure. They way some people are talking here makes it sound like ANet is handing out godmode cheats to everyone that asks for them. Bears can still die, and you can't keep the blessing up indefinately.

Everyone who is QQing over this could probably find more constructive uses for their time--just shut up and play the damn game already!

Racthoh · Oct 29, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

The point here seems to be that Ursan doesn't do this by itself. Sure, yeah, if you run three or four of them things get a little easy, but the same thing can be said of running 3-4 invoke spikers, or 3-4 mixed melee spikers, 3-4 rangerspikers.... you get the point.

Except Ursan is immune to all forms of shutdown outside of say Distracting Shot or Diversion.

Quote:

Also, it should be noted that in order to acheive maximum effectiveness, you have to do a fair bit of grinding, or turn in a couple HM books to get that title up. You have to work for it--it's not like they're just giving everyone an uber awesome skill to use at their leisure. They way some people are talking here makes it sound like ANet is handing out godmode cheats to everyone that asks for them.

For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't get into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.

draxynnic · Oct 29, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Except Ursan is immune to all forms of shutdown outside of say Distracting Shot or Diversion.

And, to be fair, energy denial. But that's just a question of knowing not to use it against certain opponents.

Quote:

For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. Having to "work for it" makes it worse as it raises the spectre of grind becoming a prerequisite.

Wacky · Oct 29, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.

But this problem is more due to skills being linked to allegiance titles rather than Ursan Blessing itself. We had the stupid LB rank discrimination back in Nightfall already, this is just ANet continuing on with the trend. (If there's title grind for PVE skills in GW2, I really wonder whether I'd buy it)

Many of the PVE skills seem to be balanced around rank 5 or so and become a bit overpowered at rank 10.

trobinson97 · Oct 29, 2007, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Please don't let other people use their preferred builds in PvE, it's much more fun for me if they play the way I do. After all, elite missions in Guild Wars are my only way of raising my self esteem.

Racthoh · Oct 29, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

So your point is it's not immune to all forms of shutdown? I agree.

Canceling an Ursan Strike from an earshot away from an enemy using Distracting Shot is not difficult at all, especially when you're expecting it. You don't even have to cancel against the Diversion, just wand to get some energy back instead.

I play a paragon using Focused Anger and Save Yourselves! (which really needs a hit too) and even though it's the most imbalanced thing PvE wise I am still subject to a lot of common shutdown seen in most mobs.

Quote:

That's a big if, and I really wouldn't know what to think if Anet nerfed something based on someone's hypothetical situation. As it is, I haven't seen anyone asking specifically for Ursan in your build. It seems to be the kind of thing that people like to do in order to gain some kind of ridiculous evidence in their calls for nerfs. There's a really simple solution for all those who feel it's overpowered, they just don't want to make the choice for themselves, they want Anet to do it for them and as a result it becomes a negative in the eyes of the majority who were not abusing it.

Last three days I've been in DoA forming groups all I've seen were Ursanway groups forming and that was just in International. Besides that it doesn't matter; the fact that Joe Whammo who can play the game for extended periods of time has access to a stronger skill than someone who doesn't.

trobinson97 · Oct 29, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Canceling an Ursan Strike from an earshot away from an enemy using Distracting Shot is not difficult at all, especially when you're expecting it. You don't even have to cancel against the Diversion, just wand to get some energy back instead.

Not everyone is on your skill level so I still agree that it's not immune to all forms of shut down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I play a paragon using Focused Anger and Save Yourselves! (which really needs a hit too) and even though it's the most imbalanced thing PvE wise I am still subject to a lot of common shutdown seen in most mobs.

Lol, see this is what I mean. You guys plays what you call "imbalanced builds" then complain about them being imbalanced and needing to be nerfed. What the ****? Why does this really need to be nerfed, and if it does, why do you continue to use it? Is it that reaching argument that you want to use the best combination of skills for a given task? If that's so, why would you want it to not work as good? Also, if you really want something that doesn't work as well, then why not just use another build? I can't even comprehend the selfishness of a person to want everyone to not have fun just because you just can't decide to stop using (and complaining about for Pete's sake) your "imbalanced" build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ractoh

Last three days I've been in DoA forming groups all I've seen were Ursanway groups forming and that was just in International. Besides that it doesn't matter; the fact that Joe Whammo who can play the game for extended periods of time has access to a stronger skill than someone who doesn't.

As funny as that is (I just left DoA int and didn't see much of anyone there, it's early yet though) that still doesn't speak to the idea of "Ursanway" becoming the way to play for "everyone in the game". So even if some folks decide to use it in DoA I say big deal, I really have no desire to govern how people play in their instance. You play the game the way you want to play it, let me play it the way I want to.

Is that it though? Is that the main point you're making that people are using it in DoA that makes you call for PvE nerfs? Is it that people who do DoA regularly don't want new people coming and getting the same rewards but not having to use the cookie cutter build THEY deem acceptable? I am not picking or jabbing but I really want to know. Is it that people who you might not feel are as good as killing the game's AI as you are now having an easier time really making you annoyed? Why would you even care? Who are you to try to govern the way anyone else plays. I really wouldn't have any problems in understanding were these skills available in PvP, the actual competitive part of the game. DoA is not competition, it's there for people to have fun killing the AI. Why is how someone else does it so important?

Simath · Oct 29, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Not everyone is on your skill level so I still agree that it's not immune to all forms of shut down.

Skill level? There's a difference between skill and the common sense of not getting your skills Diversioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Lol, see this is what I mean. You guys plays what you call "imbalanced builds" then complain about them being imbalanced and needing to be nerfed. What the ****? Why does this really need to be nerfed, and if it does, why do you continue to use it? Is it that reaching argument that you want to use the best combination of skills for a given task? If that's so, why would you want it to not work as good? Also, if you really want something that doesn't work as well, then why not just use another build? I can't even comprehend the selfishness of a person to want everyone to not have fun just because you just can't decide to stop using (and complaining about for Pete's sake) your "imbalanced" build.

Racthoh mentioned he played a SY paragon and said it needed hit. So what? He is right, but there is a difference between SY and a skill that numerous players in a team can run to rip through any area. If you want to compare SY to Ursanway go right ahead but get used to not being right. SY can be easily countered. Any anti-melee that will shut down a paragons adrenaline gain will hurt and look at DoA it is full of anti-melee hexes. Now tell me there is an equal amount of shutdown for Ursanway. Please I would really like to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

As funny as that is (I just left DoA int and didn't see much of anyone there, it's early yet though) that still doesn't speak to the idea of "Ursanway" becoming the way to play for "everyone in the game". So even if some folks decide to use it in DoA I say big deal, I really have no desire to govern how people play in their instance. You play the game the way you want to play it, let me play it the way I want to.

The majority of teams I have seen in DoA are purely Ursanway and the reason it will become the way to play is because it turns DoA (one of the games most elite areas) into a playground for anyone with Ursan Blessing. So when the elite areas in the game become simply a joke we should just watch and wait a month until it's no longer worth setting foot there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Is that it though? Is that the main point you're making that people are using it in DoA that makes you call for PvE nerfs? Is it that people who do DoA regularly don't want new people coming and getting the same rewards but not having to use the cookie cutter build THEY deem acceptable? I am not picking or jabbing but I really want to know. Is it that people who you might not feel are as good as killing the game's AI as you are now having an easier time really making you annoyed? Why would you even care? Who are you to try to govern the way anyone else plays. I really wouldn't have any problems in understanding were these skills available in PvP, the actual competitive part of the game. DoA is not competition, it's there for people to have fun killing the AI. Why is how someone else does it so important?

Lol. First off most the teams who accomplished DoA in between the Priest glitching and Ursanway did not run the cookie cutter or holy trinity garbage scrubs swear by. The reason people are calling for nerfs is because it is simply over powered. Let me say this one more time. When an elite area becomes a children's playground there is something wrong there. It was made elite for a reason, if it was meant to have just anyone rampage through it they would have made it that way in the first place.