Curse

Racthoh · Jan 26, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Basically the only thing I haven't done is the Domain of Anguish in hardmode, namely because working around environmental effects just isn't fun at all. The hardest part for the groups I've been in has always been the holdout, the first quest in Ravenheart Gloom. Our party is generally physical heavy so the hexes tend to wreck us so I can't imagine what it would be like on hardmode with the 50% miss on top of everything. City shouldn't be an issue even though the effect there is just as nasty; if we're dying we can break aggro and res.

I've thought out 8 builds, attributes are just toying around in my head but you can assume the splits pretty easily. These builds take into consideration the use of the Eye of the North craftable consumables, max ranks in the titles, at least r3 in faction.

W/Rt
For Great Justice!
Save Yourselves!
Drunken Master
Dragon Slash
Brawling Headbutt
Steelfang Slash
Enraging Charge
Deathpact Signet

P/W
For Great Justice!
Save Yourselves!
Drunken Master
There's Nothing To Fear!
Spear of Fury
Spear of Lightning
Enduring Harmony
Signet of Return

P/W
For Great Justice!
Save Yourselves!
Drunken Master
Lyric of Zeal
The Power Is Yours!
Aria of Zeal
Enduring Harmony
Signet of Return

E/X
Fire Attunement
Mind Blast
Rodgort's Invocation
Immolate
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Finish Him!
You Move Like A Dwarf!
Technobabble

E/Mo
Fire Attunement
Mind Blast
Rodgort's Invocation
Immolate
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Meteor Shower
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Convert Hexes

N/Rt
Spiteful Spirit
Enfeebling Blood
Barbs
Splinter Weapon
Signet of Lost Souls
Great Dwarf Weapon
Rip Enchantment
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor

Mo/E
Divert Hexes
Reversal of Fortune
Dismiss Condition
Signet of Rejuvenation
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Glyph of Lesser Energy

Mo/X
Word of Healing
Cure Hex
Dismiss Condition
Signet of Rejuvenation
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Seed of Life

As I said the biggest issue in my mind is the holdout. With that in mind I want three copies of "Save Yourselves!". The warrior will probably never get it off because of the hexes and 50% miss, it's more of a backup in case of the larger mob at the end when you really want that huge boost of armor. With the three physicals missing half the time, a fair of amount of AoE enraging everything means you can't afford to let that shout drop.

Battery paragon is mostly for City's effect but will obviously help in other places since it is hard mode. His split would probably be 10+2/11+1/10+2; just because it has no spear attacks doesn't mean the auto-attack won't be scary with the buffs.

The physicals have near perma 100% adrenaline gain from Enduring Harmony, For Great Justice!, and the Essence of Celerity. They will also have a 33% attack and move rate from Drunken Master; maintaining the Save Yourselves! should not be an issue.

Ele builds were just pieced together from what I remembered from our own trips, with a Convert Hexes added in.

The groups with two Margonite Ki (the monks) should drop quickly enough with a Technobabble on one + auto-attacks while the warrior KD locks the other. Great Dwarf Weapon, Barbs, and Ebon Battle Standard of Honor will add enough damage to bring down one before the daze wears off. It may be a little tougher at The Fury since no hexes can be used.

If anyone has done a quad run, in HM without an OBSFlesh tank or ursan, and has some insight into whether this has a chance or not I'd like to know. Or for any groups what their hurdles were and why.

mage767 · Jan 26, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I used to do HM Quad run in DOA using the classic trinity team but that took half a day to finish (assuming no one leaves - that's why most players are usually chosen from within guild or known good players of other guilds)

Ursan speeded things up significantly (in NM), however, I don't Ursan.

If you are asking for a head-on fight in DOA in HM (and not using Ursan), you are basically begging for instant KO. However, there are some nifty 3-man builds you can use to get the job done, but not for the entire DOA (and certainly not Mallyx) I presume.

Squishy ftw · Jan 26, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

I would add a Ward Against melee on one of the eles.

Besides that, all the builds look very solid, solid enough to clear DoA is something I can't say. I guess that will partly depend of the persons playing each role and how good they're at it.

But I can see this work yes

Good luck with it.

Shaz · Jan 26, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Seem like a solid build and could work. I'm up to trying this if I am on at the time. I met the all the requirements of the warrior. Paragon is still low on Deldrimor Title Track for Drunken Master.

knoll · Jan 26, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Any party heal? Don't know how much it will be needed though.

Shaz · Jan 26, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Probably wouldn't need it if at least one of the three SY has their shout up. If not you can probably fit a heal party somewhere on the E/X? Like for You Move Like A Dwarf! or Immolate, should keep Finish Him! as it is the only Deep Wound in the build.

Squishy ftw · Jan 26, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

There's party healing with Breath of the Great Dwarf on one of the eles.

Shaz · Jan 26, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Ups, missed that

. Nevermind what I said then.

Koning · Jan 26, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I presume the physicals are drunken 24/7?

Personally I would drop immolate from the ele's (it's HM so the damage is very low anyway, and you got more than enough other skills to spam). Move the great dwarf weapon to them, and let the SS take reckless haste (the miss is nice imo). Wards are an good idea too, like suggested. Personally I also don't like finish him (too long recharge IMO), might aswell take TNTF (even if it's 0 LS) since you have only 1 copy and the heal is nice too.
Rest looks pretty solid to me.

Shaz · Jan 26, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Agree on immolate. Though remember, everything will be under Essence of Celerity, so no need to be drunk

. Finish Him recharge wont be so bad and will be good to, well, finish something lol with Deep Wound and Cracked Armor. And one copy of TNTF should be enough with consumables.

The Meth · Jan 26, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

With all the burning going on 'They're on Fire!' would probably help greatly, since the Gloom effect doesn't stop your spellcasters from burning them. Don't know if you will need it, but right now with the 50% miss in gloom even with 3 SY! users you are just playing luck games. Also, a second copy of 'There's Nothing to Fear!' could be used so you can chain the two. I'm not sure how bad energy would be in city, you might be able to drop one of your battery skills for it, or signet of return (you would still have 2 reusable resses, and there are consumables that res). The overall build definitely looks pretty invincible, but DoA cheats so bad that you can't really tell if its good enough without actually testing it.

Your e/mo can take out immolate and Meteor Shower for Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom and Mindbender. 60% HSR ward and the ele has HCT active indefinitely which will let it really take advantage of all those fast recharges, with 2 other 20% HSR mods you will get an effective 74.4% HSR. That lets your party put out a lot more fun stuff like Seed of Life and Spiteful Spirit. If you want MS you might be able to take out GoLe instead, with all that fast cast and super fast recharging you might be able to rely on mind blast spam alone.

If you are gonna go for it I can provide a paragon.

Racthoh · Jan 27, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I just realized my battery paragon is going to have 5 extra seconds of The Power Is Yours! because of Enduring Harmony. Factor in the consumable and he can maintain a perma -8 pips! Maybe I'll go with Song of Restoration, Purification, or maybe even a Defensive Anthem in that slot.

And the first paragon has no elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoll

Any party heal? Don't know how much it will be needed though.

Seed of Life, Breath of the Great Dwarf, and There's Nothing To Fear! ending should be enough. Provided the monk isn't bad, Breath is mashed when need be, and the paragon remembers how to paragon. I could always drop Rip Enchantment for a second Breath of the Great Dwarf and hope Healing Seed doesn't get off.

TNTF is going to have a 6 second downtime @12 leadership and essence of celerity, and on the warrior and paragons only 1 second. Is using a slot on the paragon's bar worth that extra time?

Ward Melee and Reckless... Enfeebling Blood, three SYs, Aegis Chain; I think it's enough physical hate. It would be useful for the 3rd room against the Fury Titans; Death Blossom in such a small space could really hurt if too many of them spawn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

With all the burning going on 'They're on Fire!' would probably help greatly, since the Gloom effect doesn't stop your spellcasters from burning them. Don't know if you will need it, but right now with the 50% miss in gloom even with 3 SY! users you are just playing luck games.

With Gloom being the hardest area in my mind it wouldn't be a bad idea to slot They're On Fire!. And for the other armor ignoring damage on enraged monsters would be quite useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Your e/mo can take out immolate and Meteor Shower for Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom and Mindbender. 60% HSR ward and the ele has HCT active indefinitely which will let it really take advantage of all those fast recharges, with 2 other 20% HSR mods you will get an effective 74.4% HSR. That lets your party put out a lot more fun stuff like Seed of Life and Spiteful Spirit. If you want MS you might be able to take out GoLe instead, with all that fast cast and super fast recharging you might be able to rely on mind blast spam alone.

I was debating EBS Wisdom in the slot where Rip Enchantment is currently. Through the essence I figured everything would be recharging fast enough that it wouldn't matter too much, but more Seeds of Life does sound good. Meteor Shower can be really nice just because of how much it can KD to get some pressure off the party, even if it's just for 9~ seconds. I'll have to tweak the eles a lot for sure.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

The Meth · Jan 27, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I forget that you are using essence to boost your recharge time, no you probably don't need a second copy of TntF! with it recharging in 15 seconds. Adding a second would prevent you from getting the healing from it ending anyways. Now that you mention those rather bothersome death blossom-spammers They're on Fire is sounding increasingly useful to prevent armor ignoring damage of that sort.

Perhaps substituting Song of Purification for The Power is Yours would be good? I haven't done a DoA run in a while, but I remember some huge condition overload in some areas.

On the other hand, if you really want to assure that SY! is up almost all the time in Gloom you could take Anthem of Fury. At 13 Leadership it provides 4 adren (doubled by FGJ to 8 adren) and works whenever allies -use- an attack skill, the attack doesn't have to actually hit. Downside is that its not all that useful anywhere else, since when you can hit you have huge adren generation with FGJ

Also, since you didn't outlaw it in the OP, taking a bunch of mesmers and echo chaining cry of pain would easily kill whole groups before they could get to you. Basically the ol' tank/nuke game except your nuke is so fast, powerful and with a large enough AoE to not need the tank

Racthoh · Jan 27, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Perhaps substituting Song of Purification for The Power is Yours would be good? I haven't done a DoA run in a while, but I remember some huge condition overload in some areas.

Foundry and Gloom have a fair amount of conditions, however a 2 second usage and adrenaline skill means less SY. It's Just A Flesh Wound! has an instant usage and with SY + Lyric that's two skills returning a fair amount of energy it could be mashed a lot. It would also prevent a lot of the degen caused in Gloom.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 27, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

One thing to be aware of is that in Gloom and foundry Soothing images and vocal minority are liberally thrown about. With all the hex stacking that goes on there removing them would need to be priority number one as the build will soon collapse if the melee cant gain adrenaline or use shouts..

Racthoh · Jan 27, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Soothing Images and Faintheartedness would always hit our single SY gon (me) in the past when we played on normal mode. For the life of me I cannot figure out why Soothing Images and Faintheartedness target the gon first, especially since it would always be just the one adrenaline skill on the bar (when the DSlash warrior would have several). Vocal was a toss up and has never had a single player that would usually get it.

I cannot remember how the AI treated the hexes the one time we killed Mallyx himself in hard mode. It will be interesting to see if SY is the skill that determines how the AI uses its hexes.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 27, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

For vocal, the AI seems to go for the player with the most shouts on their bar in the same way as SI does for adrenal skills. I doubt if SY on it's own would cause the AI to switch focus, it probably just increments the number of adrenal skills that go towards that decison. Additonally positioning seems to be a large factor also, they seem to prioritise the front line so having your main buffer rear/midline would seem to be a good counter for this.

Mind you DoA AI is always a bit funny. I swear i've seen mobs just stand there in amazement when they notice there is no UB in the party

Racthoh · Jan 27, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

For vocal, the AI seems to go for the player with the most shouts on their bar in the same way as SI does for adrenal skills. I doubt if SY on it's own would cause the AI to switch focus, it probably just increments the number of adrenal skills that go towards that decison.

*scratches head* that's why I'm confused because we would always experience the opposite of that. Few shouts = usually get vocal. One adrenaline skill = always get soothing.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 27, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Do people with 2 adrenal skills get SI more often than those with 1, those with 3 more than 2 etc ? Because if so(and I think this is the case) then one could shuffle the skills around to make sure the key party 'buffer' is always lower on the priority list

From my limited paragon and warrior experience I think the above is correct, tho I've done way more DoA as a caster.

The Meth · Jan 27, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Is it possible the AoE on Vocal Minority / Soothing Images isn't just hitting multiple characters and you are just noticing it on your SY much quicker? I don't think enemies are that smart, they use empathy on casters wielding spears for example.