Curse

MagmaRed · May 11, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

I know most people are well aware of the build. It is used a lot, and posted on PvX. However, I didn't understand it well, and so I modified the PvX version, and found it to be quite good. I will share my modified build, and ask people to comment on ways to improve it.

600:

[protective spirit][spirit bond][shield of absorption][spell breaker][essence bond][life attunement][Vital Blessing][Blessed Aura]

12+1+3 Protection Prayers
12+1 Divine Favor
3 Vitae runes
5 Survivor Insignias

+5 energy, 20% enchant spear/axe/sword
+12 energy, 20% recharge (Prot), +45 while enchanted focus

Since you are using Protection Prayers to stay alive (Spirit Bond, etc.) and Vital and Attunement are in Protection Prayers, I decided it would be better to put them on the 600 than on the Smiter. This allows the attributes to be spent better, and no need for armor swapping on the Smiter.

Smiter:

[Blood is power][retribution][holy wrath][balthazar's spirit][watchful spirit][blessed signet][signet of devotion] optional

12+1+3 Smiting Prayers
12+1 (or 3) Divine Favor
3 Blood Magic

If human, a high and low energy set, otherwise, a +1 Smiting Prayers weapon, other mods are irrelevent.

All skills are from Smiting Prayers or Divine Favor. This allows the smiter to heal himself from the Reversal of Damage Banshees. It also allows for an emergency heal by removing Watchful (although this isn't needed).

The optional skill can be a variety of things based on whether it is a human, hero, and the ability to use the skills correctly.

[light of deldrimor][rebirth][purge signet]

All are good options. I use Purge, as a hero can't use LoD, and if I don't take Rebirth, I rez when I die since the hero has no rez.
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The spiders are the only thing I have not tried with this build, as I never went with a human, so didn't have LoD. Enchanted Daggers aren't hard to handle, as they use Disrupting fast, allowing you to pre cast to avoid the interrupt.

I just can't figure out why people think it is better to use the Protection bonds on the Smiter. The only interrupts I need to deal with are covered by Spell Breaker, so any secondary can work (no need for Mantra of Resolve).

Anyone have thoughts as to why people feel the need to use the PvX build putting the Prot bonds on the Smiter? Anyone think my build can be improved?

Yes, I have used this, many times. No, I have never done a run for anyone but friends. Yes, I have completed the dungeon many times, and even done so several times with no deaths.

Looking for constructive criticism, questions, and general comments about the variations from the PvX build.

Jenn · May 11, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

This is my constructive feedback, which details how I prefer to do the CoF run, and what I think is more necessary and suitable for the area.

I think what you have posted for the 600-tank is a good beginner build, but I tend to lean towards something more effective once the runner is comfortable. Also, I think having "Mantra of Resolve" is a vital skill to have if you're running spiders. It also helps if your Spell Breaker isn't ready - then you can charge full steam ahead without having to worry about being interrupted. Lastly, MoR really helps against enemies like the Enchanted - without it, sometimes they can interrupt a Spirit Bond and your life = GG.

Here are a couple variations of what in my opinion are a bit more friendly to both the beginner and advanced CoF runner:

600-tank

1. [spell breaker][protective spirit][spirit bond][shield of absorption][Air of Superiority][Mantra of Resolve][Essence Bond][Blessed Aura]

or

2. [spell breaker][protective spirit][spirit bond][shield of absorption][Light of Deldrimor][Mantra of Resolve][Essence Bond][Blessed Aura]

Attributes/armor/weapons for either tank build
12+1+1 Protection (headpiece + minor prot)
10+1 Divine Favor
8 Inspiration
-Full suvivor set
-Vitae runes
-Superior Vigor
-20% enchantment & +5energy sword/axe with a +30hp offhand of some sort. I've seen some runners opt for a staff with extra recharge, but still had the enchanting mod.

How to use tank bar 1 & 2
Think of it logically - which skills do you want to have on you the longest? Spellbreaker and Shield of Absorption. The first skill I cast is Mantra of Resolve. I cast this in between mobs, when I'm running to them. Since it's a stance, you aren't interrupted as you're running. If you do this, your energy bar is full again before you reach the next mob, and the skill lasts long enough for you to be able to afford this pre-cast. As you are setting up to run in, cast Protective Spirit first. This is your longest lasting skill, and you usually won't have to recast it. Next you want to put up Spell Breaker, and run in! While the melee is approaching you, cast your Spirit Bond, and then Shield of Absorption. Once these spells are casted, the melee enemies will almost be on you. Whether you choose to run tank 1 or tank 2 is up to you, but about halfway through your time in there, cast LoD or AoS. Don't cast AoS too soon, or else (if you don't have high rank Asuran) it will run out before things begin to die.

Skill recharges work very well together, and once you get used to it, it's rather seamless. There is very little need for button mashing. Do take note that Shield of Absorption is your biggest life saver. I have gone several seconds without Spirit Bond up due to laziness, and SoA will save me. Because of this, I strongly suggest you cast SoA after it recharges. DO NOT cast SoA if Spell Breaker is down. It is a 1 second cast that is easily interrupted or P-Blocked if MoR isn't up. And frankly, you shouldn't need to cast it a third time - most of the enemies will be dead, and you can just save yourself with Spirit Bond.

Smiter
Giggle - I also disagree with you on the smiting build. Some of the maintained enchants you had on your 600 bar, I've put on to the smiter bar. I have completely axed "Life Attunement" because once you get the feel of the run, it is 10000% unnecessary.

1. [Blood Is Power][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Balthazar's Spirit][Vital Blessing][Blessed Signet][Signet of Devotion][Rebirth]

or

2. [Cautery Signet][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Balthazar's Spirit][Vital Blessing][Purge Signet][Signet of Devotion][Rebirth]

Hero Smiter attributes/armor/weapons
11+1+3 Smiting Prayers (headpiece + superior smiting)
10+3 Protection Prayers
10+2/3 Divine Favor
-Survivor insignias on all pieces
-Major/Superior Vigor
-Any weapon you like, dual +30hp mods are beneficial. +1/20% in smiting is also good for more damage. Runner's choice.
Note with the smiter's equipment: Aside from the runes for attributes, I personally don't use any survivor insignias, or a modified weapon for my hero. I am merely suggesting these because they are beneficial.

Human Smiter attributes/armor/weapons
12+1+3 Smiting Prayers (headpiece + superior smiting)
12+1+3 Protection Prayers (headpiece + superior protection)
3+1-3 Divine Favor
-Full Survivor set
-Major/Superior Vigor
-Any weapon of choice. Again, I suggest health mods or +1/20% smiting mod.
Note for smiter's armor: This build is called the "16/16" smiter, which simply means you have two headpieces. There is a smiting one, for the smiting bonds, and there is a prot one for the protection bonds. You switch headpieces to cast the appropriate bonds. Elsewhere on your armor you will have a divine favor rune. A human smiter will always have more health than a hero smiter because you are not wearing dual superior runes.

In both instances of the smiter's bar, Signet of Devotion is enough healing to take care of the Banshee's [Reversal of Damage] - provided you have the right attribute spread. In addition to that, 99% of the runs you will do will have clients who know the run, and are used to "inept" runners who need someone to heal their smiter.

How to use smite bar 1 & 2
I already explained how to use the headpieces for the human smiter, and the use of Signet of Devotion. Another piece of advice I have for this is to bond the tank with Retribution before you get them with Holy Wrath. Doing this will make the smiter take less damage from Reversal of Damage. In addition, something that a runner needs to be conscious of, especially if using a hero, is to keep the hero in your compass range! You don't want to lose bonds mid-battle or nothing will die. Also, be very careful if you're unflagging your hero. Sometimes your hero will take off in the opposite direction to find a path to you, and it will head off your compass. I suggest flagging your hero every step of the way unless there is a clear & simple path between you and the hero. Having said that, don't flag your hero too close to you either. If you're not at full health, they may run in and try to Sig of Devo you, which means chaotic agro, and might lead to a party wipe.

Other Stuff

For the choices between Tank bars 1 & 2, and Smite bars 1 & 2, I prefer to look at it this way:

If you run the Tank 1 (Air of Superiority), the Smiter 2 (Cautery Sig) is virtually useless to you because of the "Bwahaha" bonus. There's a huge chance you will finish the mob you are on without any conditions, namely being crippled. So I'd suggest to pair up "Tank 1" and "Smiter 1" in this instance. Also, when considering running Tank 1, there are other bonuses to AoS, like a skill recharge, extra energy, or getting a heal. Using this is an inadvertant way of speeding up the run.

When choosing to run the second tank, I suggest you pair it up with the second smiter, because there is no condition removal on the tank's bar. Tank 2 features "LoD" which also helps the runner. When amongst undead creatures, this skill, at max deldrimor, does 160 damage. You can also use this skill by pulling enemies to known chest spawns, LoDing there, and voila! You (maybe) pop a chest, and do 160 damage to the foes around you. This is a more direct way to speed up the run. It also helps you because you don't have to rely on your clients to bring LoD, and you can hit a known chest location, open it, and run into the next mob while your clients are happily picking up their loot.

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Now, in my very first paragraph, I said MoR is useful against the Enchanted in case they interrupt Spirit Bond. The OP said this skill isn't useful here, but I very much beg to differ. Yes, the Enchanted Daggers do hit you with Disrupting Dagger first, and if you have your skills up (and MoR), that's not a problem. The problem lies with Wild Strike. This skill will knock you out of your MoR stance, and if an out of place Disrupting Dagger is tossed your way, you may die. Seldom, very seldom, I have had Spirit Bond interrupted, and if SoA has run out by that time, you are done for. Also, having MoR up allows you to begin aggroing WITHOUT SoA up. All you will need initially is Spirit Bond & MoR. While the melee is running to you, cast SoA. It will not be interrupted because the Daggers will not have yet hit you with Wild Strike. Also - to the OP: if you plan on taking clients, they will rightfully expect you to run the spiders, and it is very difficult to do those without MoR.

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The OP asked why would anyone put the protection bonds on the smiter and the answer is simple: YOU as the runner will be more effective with because you will have more freedom in your skillset. The run will be faster, and you can rid yourself and the smiter of useless skills. The runner will have more energy with less maintained enchantments, giving your energy more leeway in tight situations where there aren't that many enemies hitting you.

[I'll leave the post at this for now, though I'm sure there are things which I will append as I think of them]

Nadia Roark · May 11, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I'm glad this thread is current because I have one huge question with the 600/smite farm and I didn't particularly care to gravedig to find my answer:

WHY IS TAHLKORA DYING? I mean seriously, she's all the way on the other side of the minimap whenever I aggro anything. Sometimes she does fine but other times she just gets pwned by.. something. I've been away from the game for a long time (I played for a little while after eotn came out but never really got the hang of the 600 farming thing--I get how the build works but I dont get where Tahlk's damage is coming from) so maybe I'm missing something but I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell is dealing her any damage at all, let alone enough damage to actually kill her. At first I thought it had something to do with Holy Wrath but I'm not seeing anything in the skill description that indicates the caster takes any damage. The first 5 or so times I ran this I cleared everything just fine, but now I can't beat the first mob (in HM) with any consistency and I'm not doing anything different. What gives? I was running this without any problems as recently as 6 hours ago, but now Tahlkora dies every time I aggro.

Edit by Snipe, removed profanity

Jenn · May 11, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

WHY IS TAHLKORA DYING?

[Reversal of Damage] from the Crypt Banshees.

Nadia Roark · May 11, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Ah. Makes sense. I hadn't really been watching that closely so I didn't really see what all was being cast on me (I just started doing this--I used to 55 back in the day but I'm kinda rusty so I don't know what each mob is packing) and I hadn't really even noticed that this phenomenon was limited strictly to crypt banshees or mobs containing them.

Jenn · May 11, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Yes - because technically it is not YOU that's doing the damage, it is the smiter. They are the ones who will be receiving the effect from "Reversal of Damage."

One way to negate that damage is to attack the target that RoD was casted on, but that's an unrealistic expectation when you may be aggroging 5-15 enemies. If you start wanding the enchanted target, that damage may be dealt to you instead of Tahlkora.

MagmaRed · May 11, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

12+1+1 Protection (headpiece + minor prot)
10+1 Divine Favor
8 Inspiration

12+1+3 Smiting Prayers (headpiece + superior smiting)
10+3 Protection Prayers
10+2/3 Divine Favor

12+1+3 Smiting Prayers (headpiece + superior smiting)
12+1+3 Protection Prayers (headpiece + superior protection)
10+1-3 Divine Favor

Can you fix the attributes for the 2nd and 3rd builds? 12-10-10 is not possible, but 11-10-10 is, maybe you meant that? 12-12-10 is no where near possible, maybe you meant 12-12-3?

Incandecree · May 11, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I have a problem with having Prot at 14 on the 600. At times the 600 is hit with weakness which drops prot by 1 and thus reduces SoA from 7 seconds to 6. At 14 prot + 35% Blessed Aura + 20% enchant SoA lasts 11 seconds on a 10 second recharge which means if you cast SoA when it is recharged (without HSR or AoS recharge) SoA is up 100% of the time. Losing that 1 second can be fatal depending on what groups you are in. I see Spirit Bond as a cover for SoA while SoA builds up the damage reduction. At exactly 600 health and Prot Spirit it will take 12 hits for SoA to completely cover the damage. Once SoA has absorbed the damage to 0 Spirit Bond isn't needed until you must cast SoA again.

I too see Life Attunement as a waste. Spirit Bond can heal for enough on its own. With Life Attunement it takes @ 4 hits to go back upto full health instead of @ 7 hits without. Why use it?

To me energy is life for the 600, without it you are dead. I prefer running Radiant runes on the 600 and still having Vital Blessing on the smiter.

As with MagmaRed I like using Air of Superiority. It speeds up the run because more often than not you aren't crippled after a battle. The skill recharge is very helpful as well. When choosing between AoS and LoD I would still prefer AoS. If you are pulling multiple groups the chance for a skill recharge is much better damage-wise against the undead. 3 melee hits from an undead creature is more damage than a rank 10 LoD. Also, you get more energy from the 3 hits.

Another skill for CoF that I like to use instead of AoS is Spirit Shackles. It effectively shuts down Murakai at the end where she doesn't cast a thing because she is out of energy.

and then comes the equipment. I use a prot staff for the holy damage. It is customized for the extra damage. Doing 30 damage to undead is much better than 1 damage from a sword or axe or spear.

MagmaRed · May 11, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incandecree

I have a problem with having Prot at 14 on the 600. At times the 600 is hit with weakness which drops prot by 1 and thus reduces SoA from 7 seconds to 6. At 14 prot + 35% Blessed Aura + 20% enchant SoA lasts 11 seconds on a 10 second recharge which means if you cast SoA when it is recharged (without HSR or AoS recharge) SoA is up 100% of the time. Losing that 1 second can be fatal depending on what groups you are in. I see Spirit Bond as a cover for SoA while SoA builds up the damage reduction. At exactly 600 health and Prot Spirit it will take 12 hits for SoA to completely cover the damage. Once SoA has absorbed the damage to 0 Spirit Bond isn't needed until you must cast SoA again.

I too see Life Attunement as a waste. Spirit Bond can heal for enough on its own. With Life Attunement it takes @ 4 hits to go back upto full health instead of @ 7 hits without. Why use it?

To me energy is life for the 600, without it you are dead. I prefer running Radiant runes on the 600 and still having Vital Blessing on the smiter.

As with MagmaRed I like using Air of Superiority. It speeds up the run because more often than not you aren't crippled after a battle. The skill recharge is very helpful as well. When choosing between AoS and LoD I would still prefer AoS. If you are pulling multiple groups the chance for a skill recharge is much better damage-wise against the undead. 3 melee hits from an undead creature is more damage than a rank 10 LoD. Also, you get more energy from the 3 hits.

Another skill for CoF that I like to use instead of AoS is Spirit Shackles. It effectively shuts down Murakai at the end where she doesn't cast a thing because she is out of energy.

and then comes the equipment. I use a prot staff for the holy damage. It is customized for the extra damage. Doing 30 damage to undead is much better than 1 damage from a sword or axe or spear.

I run 16 Prot on the 600. Even though you lose 75 health from the Superior Rune, you still end up with well over 600 health. In fact, I run between 700-800 depending on Death Penalty and Morale Boosts.

I like the idea of removing Attunement. I will try that out next time I do this. In fact, I wanted a way yo bring LoD, but couldn't with a hero. Removing Attunement would give me that option, as well as a source for more damage.

I considered using the Staff, but decided I would use my Spear. Didn't think the wanding would be needed, and it isn't. Since I would be using a 20% enchant mod, I would be left with a staff head for the extra health. Hale maxes at 30, while a focus item (like I use) can provide 45 health from Devotion. The 20% recharge on Protection helps with SoA as well. Air of Superiority is a nice option too. I will probably use that instead of LoD if I take a human Smiter that can bring LoD. I don't do runs for money, so I am not planning on having access to LoD from other people.

Nadia Roark · May 12, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

I have a question about RoD:

How do you deal with it? I tried taking a point out of prot on the smiter and giving her a few points in DF for Sig Devo, but she still dies pretty much every time I use the dungeon key to get into that room that marks the end of level 1. Is there any way to deal with this or should I just reisgn myself to a party wipe every time I reach the end of level one?

Vexed · May 12, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Make sure your smiter casts Retribution before Holy Wrath, this will redirect less damage back to your smiter when Reversal hits.

Aside from that, make sure they're using Sig of Devotion. One thing that worked for me was changing her to a war secondary for Healing Signet, which recharges much faster, though you lose the benefit of BiP.

Jenn · May 12, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Can you fix the attributes for the 2nd and 3rd builds? 12-10-10 is not possible, but 11-10-10 is, maybe you meant that? 12-12-10 is no where near possible, maybe you meant 12-12-3?

Haha, thanks for catching that. I clearly wrote it with half a brain. I wasn't looking in game at the time, so I was just pulling numbers out the wazoo.

MagmaRed · May 12, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

I still don't see why people feel the need to put the Prot bonds on the Smiter. Drop Protection completely from the Smiter, and put it all into Divine Favor. This allows for Signet of Devotion to easily heal the damage from RoD (as long as you set Retribution first). There are only 2 Prot bonds used, and as mentioned in this topic, some people don't use one of them. With only 1 Bond, the 600 can easily take that. Since most are using Balthazar's Spirit on the 600, and Vital Blessing on the Smiter, just trade those 2 skills.

Jenn · May 12, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Because what you have is overkill. With proper attribute spread, you can free up room on the tanks bar, and eliminate extra healing on the smiter. All they need is Signet of Devotion. If you give the tank more room to work with skills, the run will go faster.

Incandecree · May 12, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I figured that if I am going to be wanding something I might as well do a little damage. It adds up. Plus... a staff has a 20% HSR on all spells and if you have a spear and offhand you are either going to have a 10% HSR on all spells or you are going to have 20% of whatever spec you have on the offhand. I usually go for all energy on the staff as I don't need any extra health: insightful staff head and +5e while enchanted.

Incandecree · May 12, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I usually run 16 in smite, 11 in prot and 8 in tactics running a Mo/W smite build with heal sig. At 8 in tactics it is a 104 point heal (i think. don't quite remember the exact since I am at work). I don't need a BiP, never have.

I like to have the 600 self-sufficient since the smiter is usually on the edge of the radar.

Incandecree · May 12, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I run only 2 bonds on the 600: Essense Bond and Blessed Aura.

On the smiter I run: Balth Spirit, Retribution, Holy Wrath and Vital Blessing

I cannot switch the two since both are on the smiter. If I put Essense Bond on the smiter the 600 will not get any energy from it.

I find that the 600 with 2 pips of energy regen is much easier than 1 pip of regen. I find that with 1 pip of regen I would need the BiP; with 2 pips it is a piece of cake.

MagmaRed · May 12, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incandecree

I figured that if I am going to be wanding something I might as well do a little damage. It adds up. Plus... a staff has a 20% HSR on all spells and if you have a spear and offhand you are either going to have a 10% HSR on all spells or you are going to have 20% of whatever spec you have on the offhand. I usually go for all energy on the staff as I don't need any extra health: insightful staff head and +5e while enchanted.

The 20% recharge on all spells only helps with Spell Breaker. All other spells you use are Protection Prayers, so I do just fine with the 20% focus. Since it is only a 20% chance, I don't worry about getting SB recharged, as I rarely need to use it again that fast anyway. Even if I did, I could always take a second forcus with a Divine Favor req and the same mods to switch to for casting SB.

I do see the value in the staff, but I don't see the benefit to be enough for the way I do the run. If I had problems and needed the boost it provided (extra damage from Holy damage and extra recharge bonus on SB), I would definitely use one. Although it is a small increase, the spear+focus set I use gives me more energy than the typical Hale staff, and only 3 less than the Insightful staff.

Incandecree · May 12, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

on your build for the 600. I use many different 600 builds for different areas of the game. My weapon setup helps with all the builds no matter which one I am using.

When I am 600ing Nahpui Quarter for feathers I don't use SpellBreaker. I have Energy Drain as my elite and Pain Inverter is also on that bar. If I had a divine favor offhand the 20% spell recharge for divine favor spells would be worthless.

What about Light of Deldrimore? That's a spell that isn't under divine favor? The few 20% spell recharges on that add up as well.

When I go after the 50 mesmers in Jaga Moraine I have AV or SB on my bar instead of MoR. That isn't under divine favor either.

Inventory space is at a premium. The less I have to store the better

MagmaRed · May 12, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I was referring to CoF though, not Nahpui, Jaga, etc. Recharge on LoD would be nice if using it for damage, but even if I take that as the 600, I wouldn't be using it for damage, just benefiting from the fact it does damage on occassion. Besides, I never farm Nahpui, as feathers are easier to get (for me at least) in North Kryta Province. I don't 600 there though, I 55 it, and usually on my Necro.