Curse

strcpy · Nov 15, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber88

Thanks for your "wonderful" insights. Because of the "wonderful" AI, when I play (HM), I usually charge in with my H/H. As I am a monk, the mobs absolutely adores me and I take a good portion of the aggro & draws them away. The heroes are setup using tested working builds. (1 ss/enfeelbling, 1 sf ele & 1 hard interupt ranger). I took 1 healing hench, 1 blood hench, the ele hench & 1 mes hench. I myself play the prot monk. & my H/H hav problems surviving. Yes, I am a noob.

Yea, no problems there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

And WTH are you talking about, strcpy? If you flag them into a group of flameshielders they will die since they are too stupid to run from big rocks landing on their head. If you flag them to where 3 Quetzl tengu patrols converge they will die. It is not possible for the player to join in the fight and make them lose. It is still about aggro control and playing well.

I'm talking about most of the game - sure you aggro three full HM groups and you will die (good luck with consistently winning that one with a group of experienced humans) or you pick one of the few groups that totally have the H/H number. However, the vast majority of the games you can flag them and walk away. I had hoped that the people reading what I wrote are smart enough to realize what a "strawman argument" is and try not to go there, but alas I seem to be proven wrong again and again.

I hate PvP, but dang if sometimes I can't but help agree with their elitists on PvE players from time to time. I always wonder how someone got all these wonderful titles yet can not handle these situations. I suppose that is why those same people have to come on here when there is a VERY minor skill balance to see if there are any changes.

Cobalt · Nov 15, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

Actually Mhenlo now uses WoH (as of Tuesday 11/13/2007):
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/
Miscellaneous
Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing.

Yes but at the same time they nerft WoH which kinda too the edge off previous buff and any advantage switching him to it thus he is really no better than he ever was.

It is Anet, they are not going to give us anything good and let us keep it.

I D E L E T E D I · Nov 15, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

WoH is still very usable on a healing monk.

furanshisuko · Nov 15, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

do runes and insignias really matter cuase i think if we get low lvls minions they die fast and get more energy? :P

cyber88 · Nov 16, 2007, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

As I tell many "new" players... relying on base classes only is 99% of the times a baaaaaad idea.

Be inovative! Play a smiter, bring Sab's team build, leave the healing hench at home (imho LoD nerf makes Mhenlo less useful than Lina), and by "ele hench" I sure hope you mean Herta, not Cynn.

BTW I'd also recommend Lo Sha for melee-heavy areas or Zho for caster-heavy areas.

LOL. In case you don't know my previous posts in other threads. Prior to using Sab's build. I play the smiter best. When I charge in with Sab's build, I hav little problem as a smiter. It is only when the ele boss is kicking shit out of me that I take out N/Rt healer & take the role of healer then taking a a hard interupt Ranger.

Yes. I take Herta because her wards are useful as I can deal damage as a smiter (which I hit damn hard) I am currently vanquishing Cantha as I have finished Elona & Tyria.

Hmmzzz....I see your recomendations after reviewing the henchies setup & I am impress.

thx.

BTW I got the title "noob" from PUGs because I play smiter.

mcsumo · Nov 16, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I'm talking about most of the game - sure you aggro three full HM groups and you will die (good luck with consistently winning that one with a group of experienced humans) or you pick one of the few groups that totally have the H/H number. However, the vast majority of the games you can flag them and walk away. I had hoped that the people reading what I wrote are smart enough to realize what a "strawman argument" is and try not to go there, but alas I seem to be proven wrong again and again.

I hate PvP, but dang if sometimes I can't but help agree with their elitists on PvE players from time to time. I always wonder how someone got all these wonderful titles yet can not handle these situations. I suppose that is why those same people have to come on here when there is a VERY minor skill balance to see if there are any changes.

Oh I can cope with things just fine. I was merely pointing out that this hero build is not the be all and end all. Plus I felt compelled to comment on your line about 'I can flag the group ahead of me into a large group of enemies, do nothing, and watch them win every single time'. Not only is it completely factually incorrect, it is extremely unhelpful to anybody 'newish' who reads this post trying to figure out where they are going wrong. You (and some others) are giving the impression that this build is invincible.....which isn't the case.

Oh and I have dealt with those who bring up 'strawman arguments' before. They always seem so wrapped up in their sanctimonious sense of self superiority, compared to the entire human race, that no argument works. Thus the simplest and most effective way of saying what needs to be said is 'Stop being a dick'

Sheriff · Nov 16, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

BTW I'm not sure if ANET did this on purpose since GWEN is on a "prophecies" map, but they lost a good chance of teaching new players how to play non-basic classes.

This was the first time ANET gave us "perfect" henchmen. Great builds, great elites... base classes. In some cases duplicates, like rangers, monks and warriors.

This is another reason why less experienced players are still relying on monks instead of paragons and ritualists for healing, elementalists instead of ritualists for damage, etc

ANET should have added an henchman for each of the non base classes, with good quality elites and builds.

ender6 · Nov 16, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Yes but at the same time they nerft WoH which kinda too the edge off previous buff and any advantage switching him to it thus he is really no better than he ever was.

It is Anet, they are not going to give us anything good and let us keep it.

Oh no, they shaved 20pts of healing power off of WoH. Yep time to throw in the towel.

If anything the fact that he no longer has a pre-Nerf LoD to use has hurt his effectiveness--but the simple fact of the matter is that HM is very manageable, even if you are forced to go with Hench Monks.

So far, for the latter part of this thread I have heard ppl voice their concerns over AoE dmg, and how hard it is to handle. The proper response isn't to attempt to heal through it, but rather avoid it all together. If you are facing a group that uses AoE dmg, shut it down or misdirect it.

1) Always Bring Zho and Illusionist Hench (for EotN). If possible bring an interrupter Hero. Also you can often slip in Leech Signet/Power Drain onto hero skillbars acting as e-mgnt + interrupts.

2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion.

3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in.

my 2cents...

strcpy · Nov 16, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

Oh I can cope with things just fine. I was merely pointing out that this hero build is not the be all and end all. Plus I felt compelled to comment on your line about 'I can flag the group ahead of me into a large group of enemies, do nothing, and watch them win every single time'. Not only is it completely factually incorrect, it is extremely unhelpful to anybody 'newish' who reads this post trying to figure out where they are going wrong. You (and some others) are giving the impression that this build is invincible.....which isn't the case.

What I wrote wasn't particularly focused on this build - I didn't find it as great as others did either. It's been a nice change to goof off with though. For the most part what I said was true - what they are doing is wrong is getting in the way of the H/H instead of helping them as they can win nearly every single time by flagging them ahead and watching (make you happy now?). Plus that was in response to a specific situation in which it *did* work every single time.

Quote:

Oh and I have dealt with those who bring up 'strawman arguments' before. They always seem so wrapped up in their sanctimonious sense of self superiority, compared to the entire human race, that no argument works. Thus the simplest and most effective way of saying what needs to be said is 'Stop being a dick'

My sense of self superiority? Yea, I got that. I'm the greatest that ever played. A strawman argument is when you set up something similar to the persons argument that is obviously wrong, show that, and then extend that relationship to the whole thing. Superiority complex or not, that is terrible logic and I see no issue with someone pointing out that one was used.

I also assume you are smart enough to have a decent setup on your party and you may also have to call a few targets from time to time (especially bosses). I find that to be quite altruistic of myself to think that others can do that, given my sanctimonious sense of superiority but the most vocal always seem to want to squash that idea right out of my head.

The fact is that the Hench/heroes can clear almost everything by their selves, if they aren't then you are doing something wrong. Nearly every single party wipe I have ever had is traced back to something *I* did. Every once in a while one of them likes to leeroy off for reasons unknown to me or they just stand around doing nothing. I'm not entirely sure why it is a sense of self superiority to say that on party wipes I am the one (or the human is) that goofed, but OK - I like being a sanctimonious prick.

cyber88 · Nov 17, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

...Not only is it completely factually incorrect, it is extremely unhelpful to anybody 'newish' who reads this post trying to figure out where they are going wrong. You (and some others) are giving the impression that this build is invincible.....which isn't the case.

I hope I am not 1 of those who have misled others into thinking that this build is invincible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

1) Always Bring Zho and Illusionist Hench (for EotN). If possible bring an interrupter Hero. Also you can often slip in Leech Signet/Power Drain onto hero skillbars acting as e-mgnt + interrupts.

2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion.

3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in.

my 2cents...

I agree all all 3 points because after trying out the 3 points, it works. especially for point 1 & 3.

Sheriff · Nov 19, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

1) Always Bring Zho and Illusionist Hench (for EotN). If possible bring an interrupter Hero. Also you can often slip in Leech Signet/Power Drain onto hero skillbars acting as e-mgnt + interrupts.

This is terribly redundant. Zho is a waste on most azuran areas (raptors and similars galore), Lo Sha is marginally useful on caster areas (ice imps/etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion.

That's true. One nice way of doing it is using Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, and then charging in while the enemy is being pummeled by it

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in.

my 2cents...

Absolutely. Here's an example: for HoS, I turned the N/Mo MM into N/Rt and put Bloodsong (kills the wurm real fast) and splinter weapon for Talon to have some fun.

But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM

unienaule · Nov 19, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM

Didn't you hear? The soul reaping timer makes necromancers bad in PvE.

Sheriff · Nov 19, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Didn't you hear? The soul reaping timer makes necromancers bad in PvE.

Yeah yeah yeah, next thing you're going to tell me that Paragons suck, right?

blue.rellik · Nov 19, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Didn't you hear? The soul reaping timer makes necromancers bad in PvE.

Yeah of course! I can't keep up my echoed Bone Fiend spamming anymore! Curse you ANet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

Yeah yeah yeah, next thing you're going to tell me that Paragons suck, right?

Obviously. Cracked Armor means I can't aggro everything I see anymore!

cyber88 · Nov 20, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM

Well, Sab created this build for NM in the 1st place anyway.

Elinold Fyonex · Nov 20, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

You know whats crazier is that his builds work on HM too xD I've been farming the crap out of the hm books by doing curse of the norn bear, time for heroes, and assault on the stronghold over and over with them (well, not on time for heroes, i use a 4 monk build on that one ;P) As a war, sabs necros make the game as a whole a c space fest...and that's ok for a change

Sheriff · Nov 20, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elinold Fyonex

You know whats crazier is that his builds work on HM too xD I've been farming the crap out of the hm books by doing curse of the norn bear, time for heroes, and assault on the stronghold over and over with them (well, not on time for heroes, i use a 4 monk build on that one ;P) As a war, sabs necros make the game as a whole a c space fest...and that's ok for a change

Yes the build works fine in HM as well. Main difference seems to be that on NM you can get away with 0 monks, and on HM you definitely need one more monk to help the restoration N/Rt

Now this is for my W (dslash/godmode build) and since it's mostly a balanced team, the amount of healers above holds. If I use a less defensive/more offensive team (atm my mesmer is having fun with a Echo + Arcane Echo + Pain Inverter + EVAS + Summon Mursaat build

), I might bring the 2 monk henchies.

And regarding a Time for Heroes, yeah it's safer to do it with at least 4 healers, even though Pain Inverter totally owns the great destroyer. Mind you, I've seen a 55 soloing that mission :S

Elinold Fyonex · Nov 20, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

For hm, I usually take both monks, zho, and cynn. Plow through mobs easily with it (maybe cause I'm running ursan

)

cyber88 · Nov 22, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

And regarding a Time for Heroes, yeah it's safer to do it with at least 4 healers, even though Pain Inverter totally owns the great destroyer. Mind you, I've seen a 55 soloing that mission :S

I know. I paid for a run in HM from 1 of the 55 monk.

roperratt · Nov 26, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

I have been using something similar to this but I use Gwen in place of Livia, she does pretty good with the healing. I gave her energy tap for bringing her energy back up. I started using Gwen because of the missions that called for her in the party and was suprised by how well she does. I will probably go back to the 3 necro build eventually. What would be a better energy management tool for a mesmer?