Curse

Feathermoore Rep · Nov 21, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

For UW in NM with balanced/heroes Is it possible to do 4 horseman without a Perma, OB tank, or 600/smite combo to hold off one side??? That said I can get with some small guildie/friends and Heroway pretty much all of the UW, but one of us always has to play a perma to guarantee that we beat 4H.

However since the introduction of Skeles and Dhuum, a majority of the quest spawns have changed, that alone is tough to cover with balanced. (like wastes and bone pits) In wastes Dryders now spawn in different areas spread out, and in pits dhuums come with 3 dryders from behind and gank the spirits while your team facing the large crowd in front. Have others changed? The pits will be fairly easy now that I know a group sneaks up from behind. The wastes is just a sketch fest of how quick you can kill and aggro things before they run off. Did any other quests change drastically that changes the old tactics pre-uw changes?

Also in 4Horseman, you get 4!!! Dhuums with each boss party that don't even actually walk with the party. They are slow and walk in later all at the same time. This makes fighting at the Reaper ridculous. 4 -35dps spirit range-aoe and 100-dmg bone spikes hurt at the same time.

But i suppose now that i know this, we could have a designated player to take out the dhuums at least on one side before they reach us, which would be much easier to heal. I feel like this tactic is uber sketchy though...Is the the best bet for fighting at the reaper? The Dryders and Dream Riders aren't hard to fight, its the everything ignoring skele dmg with those enemies thats hard to keep up with.

I think we'll just continue to run with a perma to just tank half of the aggro, but i'd like to run without one. But those 4H skeles are just ridiculous.

here to troll · Nov 21, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

spirit spammers can hold one side of 4h (not forever, but so long as you spread them out and walk backwards) and can hold one side of unwanted guests. Disclaimer, i haven't tested this, just what i have heard on the forums. Don't shoot me please.

Xenomortis · Nov 21, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

A spirit spammer or two should be able to hold one side during 4H.
6 people in a balanced setup should have no trouble taking on the other side and coming back to kill those that remain on the spirit's side.

I can't give specific advice on how to play the spirits, but with an ER Ele or two you shouldn't have too many problems - just remember to fall back to the reaper if the spirit spammers fail.

Hells Fury · Nov 21, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Also... dying nightmare
From wiki:

"This creature was introduced as a counter to the 55hp monk builds farming the Underworld. It can quickly strip all of the necessary enchantments from the monk, killing itself in the process."

Since skeletons are now here what's the point in having nightmare. Except as an annoyance.

IronSheik · Nov 22, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

I had one of the best balanced Pugs ever with two ER infusers and we still couldn't beat NM

2 E/Mo
3 Scythe Phys
Ranger
Spirit Rit
Orders

Eventually when skeles spawned we succumbed to too many 35's and wiped at 4h.
Not even new wastes quest posed any trouble, but 4h was too hard without a perma and splitting

isildorbiafra · Nov 22, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Died pugging yesterday with some good balanced teams 10x at wastes and 1x at 4horsemen. Only SF sin groups can blow through the uw now like its a piece of cake. Way to go anet for not solving the REAL problem. On second thought replace "solving" with "nerfing".

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I had one of the best balanced Pugs ever with two ER infusers and we still couldn't beat NM

2 E/Mo
3 Scythe Phys
Ranger
Spirit Rit
Orders

Eventually when skeles spawned we succumbed to too many 35's and wiped at 4h.
Not even new wastes quest posed any trouble, but 4h was too hard without a perma and splitting

I wouldn't recommend orders. Not only does it not stack with AoHM, but an AP-MoP caller would server you better.
Splitting on 4H is more or less essential. Just send your Spirit spammer to the west side to stall the approaching enemies while you spike down the two riders as quickly as possible.

The Reaper shouldn't die with 2 ER eles and the riders dead, no matter how many dryders are running around.

I've just finished a run in HM. The Four Horsemen quest is the hardest part and where failure is most likely.

IronSheik · Nov 22, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I wouldn't recommend orders. Not only does it not stack with AoHM, but an AP-MoP caller would server you better.
Splitting on 4H is more or less essential. Just send your Spirit spammer to the west side to stall the approaching enemies while you spike down the two riders as quickly as possible.

The Reaper shouldn't die with 2 ER eles and the riders dead, no matter how many dryders are running around.

I've just finished a run in HM. The Four Horsemen quest is the hardest part and where failure is most likely.

Normally our spirit spammer would be able to hold out, but this is a PuG, remember, PuG spirit spammers tend to afk/run away at any site of losing

Orders adds ~40 armor ignoring damage per attack, removes hexes/conditions from frontline. R1 AoHm adds around 35% more damage from base, and max around 73% from base, I don't know what equates to more, AoHm would probably be better due to pits, but I don't always run scythes due to PuGs thinking warriors are bad at anything except swords.

A large majority of UW has hex removal, Mindblades are hard to hit with a hex, smites remove them, mountains doubles cast time, MoP would be more of an annoyance. Also, AoHM=Holy, can't MoP with holy.

BlueXIV · Nov 22, 2009, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Isn't orders physical only too?

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

A large majority of UW has hex removal, Mindblades are hard to hit with a hex, smites remove them, mountains doubles cast time, MoP would be more of an annoyance. Also, AoHM=Holy, can't MoP with holy.

No, those two things are the only things that annoy hexers. Only Smites have hex removal.

Smites in Wastes and the large Mindblade groups in the Chaos Planes are the only things that I couldn't get hexes to stick to.
Everything else I could make explode. It's also much easier when you split for the 4H and Ice King.
In the mountains, the double cast time was annoying, but I could still perform fairly well. Mindbender helped a lot and the Obsidian guys are fairly tough, so I didn't miss AP very often. You don't need to fight many of them anyway, only the ones on the path up to the reaper.

So that's three areas. The UW has about 8.

Hexes and conditions really are not threatening.
The most annoying place for them is probably Pits, but you get swamped by Suffering, but ERs should be able to heal through it because there's bugger all else in there.

If you're running with AoHM, that person won't benefit from orders. That's fine, because AoHM > Orders but Barbs+MoP > AoHM.

IronSheik · Nov 22, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Direct me to where I said I actually did run AoHM.

And direct me to where I said I always use three scythes.

Feathermoore Rep · Nov 22, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Been running with 1-2 guildies:

Scythe Tank
Spirit Spammer
SS/Toxic/FoC Necro - Been changing some build trying to see what constantly pumps out dmg
Heal/Prot Heroes Monks (1 PnH 1 WoH)
3 Heroes of choice:
RoJ
Mesmer
SF eles
UG Weakness KD Ele - suprisingly was efficient.
Channeling Rt.

Dmg really isnt a problem. Just balancing max offense with a tiny bit of defense.

Guess we'll try the spirit spammer playing hide n seek on the other side with 4h.

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Direct me to where I said I actually did run AoHM.

And direct me to where I said I always use three scythes.

Oops, I mis-read.

Sir Cusfreak · Nov 22, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I just want to know how a balanced team manages wastes now.
an obby tank held 4h just fine, but one wont cut it for wastes.

tips?

IronSheik · Nov 23, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

I just want to know how a balanced team manages wastes now.
an obby tank held 4h just fine, but one wont cut it for wastes.

tips?

I honestly cannot beat it balanced without Prot bond/ER healers on everyone. I've failed wastes quest with a general GvG balance every time I tried it.

Lydeck · Nov 23, 2009, 08:28 AM // 08:28

PUGs are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid.

The group I was with "planned" to wait in the middle and "guard" the spirit, even though I told them that wouldn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing work and was telling them how to do it with the tank.

But no. People are stupid. I hate people.