Curse

VonGimli · May 21, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

What good team strategies can be used against monk crazy teams? My guild is often having problems with teams with 3 monks. We have 3 monks as well, so we usually win anyways. But we still want to know someway of countering their healing. What kind of spells can be used to reduce the effectiveness of healing? So far, I know that you can get rid of the healers mana, then there is the necro elite Lingering Curse, and the monk smiting prayer Scourge Healing.

Virtuoso · May 21, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I like Linguring Curse myself, but it's not enough by itself. Try bringing someone who is good with interupts, whether it's a mesmer or a ranger.

-Virt

Nightsky · May 21, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

One Mesmer can shutdown two casters if he's skilled and no one disturb him. He need to cast Backfire and then Conjured Phantasm on the Monk you want to kill. Conjured Phantasm is there to block Remove Hex. If that Monk tries to heal himself, it will get pretty much negated. Then he move on the second Monk and lock him down(blackout, interrupt, energy drain..etc).

VonGimli · May 21, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Then there is a third monk that casts word of healing on both of them and it is all for naught :P I heard there was a mesmer spell that reduced healing...

Zeru · May 21, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Scourge healing, smiting prayers.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for but it's an option.

darknesseyes · May 21, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

u can use a ranged, rangeds can disable speels for 20 secs and burn 10 energy

Mercury Angel · May 21, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

You have a variety of venues for dealing with monks:

Stop/slow the healing at the source:
Interrupts, Dazed condition, Migraine, all reduce the amount of heals the monk actually gets off. Knockdown, Blackout, and diversion also fall under this category. I personally love using Blackout followed by Gale for ~10 seconds of inability to do anything.

Resource Denial:
The proverbial clipping of the wings of a monk, keeping their energy down means they can't heal, and if they can't heal, then you've succeeded. Debilitating shot, Panic, Energy Drain, whatever keeps them sapped.

Second thoughts... :
Scourge Healing, Backfire, Soul Leech, Spiteful Spirit, etc. If they heal, they take damage. Even if they can outheal the damage, if it's not by much, then it severely cripples their healing's effectiveness. If they can't, you buy time as they twiddle their thumbs and toes. I'd stick soul barbs under here as well, for the enchantment spammers.

Reduce the Effectiveness of Healing:
There're skills and conditions which lower the amount by which a target is healed. Deep Wound, Lingering Curse, Defile Flesh, Malign Intervention, Predatory Season, for starters. If you can outdo their healing pound for pound with damage, you'll kill them, and that's that.

And there're many skills that take multiple aspects from above and use them.
Mark of Subversion is both an interrupt and deals damage. Shame interrupts and steals energy.

Also, don't forget to be prepared to deal with a heavily enchanted monk that won't die to conventional means.

Enchantment Removal:
Odds are, they've covered up the best enchantments with other less useful ones, and single enchantment removal isn't going to cut it, at least, not up front. Skills like Well of the Profane, Lingering Curse, Rend Enchantments, and Nature's Renewal will remove them all at once. (Careful about the Nature's Renewal in a hex heavy team, they won't thank you for it.).

That's all that comes to mind at the moment, but I"m sure there're plenty of other people with more information than I, and more accurate as well >.>

Red Locust · May 22, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

It's kinda tough for 1 mesmer to shut down 2 monks. As stated, mesmers can backfire and conjure phantasm one monk, then move to the other monk and drain energy to replenish their supply. Then what I like to do is cast arcane conundrum to lengthen casting times and allow me to interrupt skills easier. Migrane works even better. After that it's a matter of luck trying to interrupt casts and drain energy, although certain monk spells allow for healing with minimal energy usage, so it's a stretch.

It's tough, but you gotta remember that for each monk they have that you don't, you have 1 more hand that deals damage. One mesmer, when properly played, can prevent 2 monks from healing their allies, forcing them to focus on themselves instead.

Tomo · May 22, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Backfire FTW. It hits alot if they cast a spell, and if they're to smart for that, then it stops them from casting for 8 seconds( not sure about time).

Isnt there a necromancer curse which greatly lowers healing ?

Fantras · May 22, 2005, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Diversion, lots of it.

dorn · May 22, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Hex's in general are probably somewhat overrated in my expierence. The good teams have convert hex's on some target or another. So stacking hex's can be risky. Tossing around Migraine and Arcane Conundrum on two monks and then stuff like scourge healing and defile flesh on the target though can spread them thin.

Lingering curses is probably just something begging to get dispelled but it is nice. There is also defile flesh(-33%), deep wounds (which also does -20% healing), and malign intervention(-20%). These effects stack from what I've gathered but there is a max amount of -% healing the target can suffer from. Deep wounds + defile flesh is a favorite for my warrior/necro.

Let's not forget mark of subversion though. This is one I rarely see mentioned as much as it should but it's as good as a 10s silence on a monk because it's basically a backfire with life steal that also happens to prevent all spell casting.

For myself though I believe the best thing to do is make the monks a non factor instead of trying to figure out how to kill them. Those mesmers on the other team are actually much more dangerous than the monks if you do it right. Monks are uber on the surface but once you play one you realize they sit on a delicate balance of healing vs energy. Even remotely upseting that balance by hitting them with energy denial will really kill their healing output. Mesmers and Necros are of course great for denying energy from the other team but dehibilitating shot and panic are far too underestimated I think. Knocking off 10 energy every 5 seconds with a ranger can really add up. Spamming panic with a warrior is also pretty effective.

Overall the biggest problem I have in groups is that everyone tries to focus fire too much. The mesmer should not be on the main target he should be on some off to the side monk messing him up. Same goes at least one other class. So in sumarization have at least 2 people who do nothing but mess up the other teams off healers with interupts and energy denial. Afterall if the other team loses healing power then the focus fire of 4 people can easily kill 1 person.

xakia · May 22, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

1 hammer warrior with 5 knockdowns loaded. Back to back, nothing you can do. Scourge healing and backfire a plus. Good luck with the other two monks.

I really don't see much of a problem with 3 monks though unless in 8vs8. 3 Monks gonna heal you to death? Zealots ain't enough. Best bet is to take the weaker Monk down and go from there.

VonGimli · May 22, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Uhh, any PvP that is worth anything is 8v8...

These have been some very nice suggestions, thanks everyone!