Curse

Neo-LD · May 11, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I realize that most people use swords, and nearly all those who dont use axes. Not many at all use hammers. The only reason I see for that is that its two handed, so you cant hold a focus or shield.

Well, Warriors are rarly targeted in pvp, so a sheild isnt necesary. Focuses are nice, but warriors hardly use their energy at all. So the two-handed disadvantage isnt so bad after all?

I find hammer skills to be much more useful in pvp: bleeding is nice, but monks notice alot more when you knock them down for 5 seconds straight.

wingedcoyote · May 11, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

The biggest handicap of hammers isn't the two-handedness, it's the slow attack speed. Because of their low Energy most warriors rely largely on Adrenaline skills, and hitting half as often means you have half as much Adrenaline (except for the small amount you get from being hit).

In general I think hammers might work better for secondary Warriors who still fight on the front lines, but have enough Energy to use that for most of their tactics. The obvious example is the classic Earth-Elementalist/Warrior knockdown beast.

Dametrus · May 12, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I started my W/Nec with an hammer and when I got to about lvl 7 I realized that the DPS did not seem right. I then tried an axe and my damage sky rocketed. The skills that I have unlocked really made the difference. I use dismember every chance I get. Very Nice Skill. Now, if you were just straight attacking the hammer would do more damage per hit. But, the problem is, the hammer swings about one time every 2 seconds while the sword or axe is swinging every second. Just to show let's say that the hammer did 20 damage every hit (every 2 seconds). The sword/axe would be doing about 15 damage every hit (every second). The damage is increased a lot and you get the benefit of a shield.

Just my 2 cents

Neo-LD · May 12, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I realize you can use those with swords/axes too, but even with frenzy/tigers fury/just about any attack rate boosting skill, the adrenaline buildup/ damage rate is still low?

What about skill comparisons? Personally I think hammer warriors are 10x more of a threat in pvp becasue of knockdown spamming.

xakia · May 12, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

I realize you can use those with swords/axes too, but even with frenzy/tigers fury/just about any attack rate boosting skill, the adrenaline buildup/ damage rate is still low?

What about skill comparisons? Personally I think hammer warriors are 10x more of a threat in pvp becasue of knockdown spamming.

His words are true. I can take out any sword or axe user with ease. Think I can't? You'll be thinking that on your ass because thats where you'll be. Most hammer users don't take the effort to go skill hunting. Having all the knockdowns and status effects is where its at. You won't do squat without them.

zeox · May 12, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

I played a Hammer build from level 1 to the final mission in PvE, meanwhile doing PvP resonably often with the same weapon. Hammer builds are certainly interesting, and can be very frustrating for PvP opponents due to all the knockdowns. However, you have to realise that compared to a sword, the killing power of the hammer is significantly less, and killing power in itself is a good way to disrupt what people are doing (what hammers are good at).

So say a monk is hanging around healing his buddies and generally making trouble for your team. In a way a you might think this is an ideal situation for a hammer, but in a way a sword can be just as effective. In the hammer situation, you're stopping the monk healing his teammates for a small period of time by knocking him down. In the sword sitation, you're doing damage to him that forces him to heal himself instead. So really, both weapon styles are result in a similar effect of disabling the monk's teammate-healing in some way, even though they went about it in different ways. However, if you get lucky, the result in the case of swords attacks will probably be the death of the monk, whereas in the case of the hammer it's more likely to be the death of a teammate.

It's also important to remember that ALL the hammer knockdowns are based on adrenaline, and and hammer has no other interrupts at all unless you can get the 10-energy elite Dwarven Battle Stance. And if you do pick that as elite, you lose access to knockdown-specific elites. And, of the 4 'guaranteed' knockdowns hammer has, 3 of those are elite, and the one that isn't elite is a 100% adrenaline drain. All the other knockdowns are conditional in some way, and may require set-ups to add weakness or not really work on spellcasters (counter blow). So in practice, you can't really chain knockdowns constantly, and after the end of a chain you tend to be left with 0 adrenaline, needing 7 at least to start knocking people down again. If you run up to a monk casting a resurrect with a hammer, and have little adrenaline, chances are you won't be able to stop that raise. With a sword, you need only 5 energy to interrupt.

Hammer is certainly an interesting build, more interesting I think than the generic sword. But sadly I'm not really conviced it's more powerful or useful in most situations. Perhaps there's a hammer build out there that will change my mind, but right now I've switched to boring old swords. Maybe when more hammer elite skill locations are discovered I'll go back to the drawing boards--right now 2 of the 3 are still a complete mystery.

Lord Malikai · May 12, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Everyone forgets that this game is purely situational. That hammer warrior would probably never fight a sword wielding warrior because the calls will point towards casters and healers. And "what if" he goes to swing a knockdown strike on a monk who happens to be Mo/Wa with balanced stance ? Uh-oh!

There is no better build. This is purely a game of circumstances being either right or wrong for what you bought to that particular fight.

sanderke · May 12, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

This thread has gotten me quite interested in the whole Hammer vs Sword thing.

Can anyone point out some pro's and con's?

Volarian · May 12, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

you also have to consider some of the Warrior inherent skills - Strength/Tactics/Stances, they either prevent being knocked down, or as in the case of Sheild Bash can block the Hammer Knock down and lock a skill-based attack for 15secs.
Like previously said, it's situational and you'll never know what your opponent is throwing at you. They may enter the fight using a defensive stance or skill, blocking what you throw at them and gaining additional adrenaline or as stated above....knocking you down in defense & keeping you from using a crucial skill.

Ishamael Sedai · May 12, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

one thing to remember though is while hammer adrenaline doesn't charge as fast a sword guy's adrenaline doesn't charge as fast when he is knocked down. being knocked down is annoying when I have my sword w/mo. it is super annoying when i am about to do 100 blades and i get knocked down.

xakia · May 12, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

You wouldn't see a knockdown from me until i have the adren to keep you down till your dead. Stances are beautiful to build up the adren.

Volarian · May 12, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

You may as well be looking at the world from you back by then.....against it's situational and Ishamel said.....you may get interupted when you go for it, or may be on YOUR back getting a razor close shave :-)

Azreal911 · May 12, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I've mainly chosen my N/War character with a hammer cause of the future knockdown skills but all these discussions about pros and cons are very valid. So then I just decided to use the hammer cause it looked really cool smashing my enemies with it and hearing a loud thud. How can that not be cool? instead of being poked by someone with a pointed metal stick.

Vangor · May 12, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Personally, I've fought quite a few hammer warriors and never been defeated. Granted I would love to use my knockdown build, I really find it alot less useful than my current which can deal with many at a time. Of course, if a Hammer ever faces a soothing images, price of failure, spirit of failure, most tend to overcompensate for the Hammer skills and get taken out, I always use Ward Against Melee whenever possible, that is already 50%.

Neo-LD · May 12, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Crushing Blow
Devastating Hammer
Heavy Blow
Sprint
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Ferocios Strike
Tigers Fury

Just an idea. Tigers Fury and Ferocious Strike to deal damage and build Adrenaline Fast. Sprint to catch up the the targeted monk/mes/ele. Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Heavy Blow, in that order, make for a nasty combo. Pets are rare (for a good reason) in pvp, but ferocious strike really helps rack the adrenaline.

wingedcoyote · May 13, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quick question -- independent of skills and such, are swords faster than axes? What's the fastest melee weapon of all?

I'm asking this because I'm planning an Illusionary Weaponry user who won't have any weapon skills at all, and thus the attack rate is really the only thing that matters. But if they're equal, I'll take an axe 'cause they look cool.

ChristopherKee · May 13, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Malikai

Everyone forgets that this game is purely situational. That hammer warrior would probably never fight a sword wielding warrior because the calls will point towards casters and healers. And "what if" he goes to swing a knockdown strike on a monk who happens to be Mo/Wa with balanced stance ? Uh-oh!

There is no better build. This is purely a game of circumstances being either right or wrong for what you bought to that particular fight.

agreed.

If I have water trident and disrupt chop on my bar, 1v1 on a hammer warr goes pretty fast for me. If I don't then I chose a different target. It's situational

Cordub · May 13, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Im a Necro/War, and the only thing a knock down warrior is going to do is prolong his death by about 2 sec. All my spells are instance so a knock down only stops it for the time im knocked down and i have never found a warrior to keep me knocked down to death.

The Red Knight · May 14, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

hmm hammer vs sword
standard issue hammer build
dev hammer crushing blow mighty blow heavy blow

standard issue sword
sever gash galrath final thrust

I did the above hammer build with judges insite and destroyed alot of stuff :b but you cannot denie the standard issue sword build for its effectiveness>

BashBashem · May 14, 2005, 07:34 AM // 07:34

All i have to say is that crap you said about warriors not being targeted first in pvp is bull .. if the casters arent paying any attention to me the warriors are dead

but then again im talkin ascalon city arena not the last arena with the lvl 20s :P