Curse

PhatMhat · Jun 07, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

here's the situation.

you've 1 monk. you're in 4v4. for whatever reason, you're not getting what you need. you're on your own. sound familiar?

i've been able to hold my own for a while vs warriors while even actually casting offensive spells. i use distortion for this.

i've been able to hold my own against DOTs and caster DDs. i use hex breaker for the hexes. for the caster DDs, aside from a mesmer's typical arsenal vs them, i have (usually the case) mantra of air (the one that nearly halves lightning dmg).

its the rangers that are getting me.

they poison me, and i've no prevent poison. i've no cure condition. i've no blind.

if i try to run they often get bleed off and then i'm losing health much more quickly.

sure i can interupt them once or twice, but meanwhile im poisoned and/or bleeding.

so what do you do to stop rangers from killing you?

and the second question i have is, how do you stay alive AND do your job offensively?

lets say i take distortion for wars; hex break for hexs, mantra of air for lightning and say pacify for archers. thats 4 slots JUST TO KEEP ME ALIVE.

i guess i could shut down a monk or shut down a caster with the remaining 4.

anyway, thought i'd see what you mesmers come up with. ideas appreciated.

d4nowar · Jun 07, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

i've always thought of a ranger as an ultimate mesmer killer, so it is kinda hard.

but if you have a me/mo character then you throw the condition healing skills that you need/want in and you've got it made.

rangers don't have much energy unless they are using druid's stuff. its only 25. and with low expertise those skills that they use are fairly expensive. energy draining skills might buy you some time to run/kill. but so would imagined burden if you plan on running.

me, i always run from rangers. they are too much for my little mesmer.

on a random note: me/mo is a pretty versatile build, i farm with mine. haha.

Ollj · Jun 08, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Mesmers getting killed by rangers?
Thanks to confirm this "theory". it says;
Monks defeat Rangers
Rangers defeat Mesmers
Mesmers defeat Elementars
Elementars defeat Necros
Necros Defeat Warriors
Warriors run around in circles and suicide.

To answere the question.
Mesmers dont kill Monks or warriors, they basically prevent Ele + Necro spells to be cast. (backfire can easily kill hencheman monks but thats it)
Dont forget to leech your opponents energy, its GOOD !

Rade Dedwa · Jun 08, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatMhat

its the rangers that are getting me.

they poison me, and i've no prevent poison. i've no cure condition. i've no blind.

I don't play a Mesmer primary, but I do as a secondary. Perhaps using the Signet of Midnight will help you with the Rangers.

PhatMhat · Jun 08, 2005, 12:10 AM // 00:10

sig of midnight has its pros and cons.

hopefully i wouldnt die from the poison and/or bleeding.

i wouldnt be taking any more arrows.

i wouldnt be doing anything else.

what would happen when the 15 secs were up?

pacify is nice but it only works for 8 secs. it could work for up to 20 which would really be usefull...but then i'd have fewer points in my mes attributes.

same thing with swirling aura in the water line. 8-20 secs with a 60 sec recast.

what im looking for is something like distortion - but for arrows and something that purges conditions on MYSELF, not only on my allies.

ill keep looking.

Caco-Cola · Jun 08, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Mmm...Empathy.

May prevent them from attacking when their attacks do damage.

That coupled with conjure phantasm to constantly drain their health, energy burn to do some damage, and shatter enchantment to do more damage for if/when they do Troll Unguent and they're well on their way to dead ville.

Add in Wastrels for some intermediate filler damage and there ya go.

Quote:

Mesmers dont kill Monks or warriors, they basically prevent Ele + Necro spells to be cast. (backfire can easily kill hencheman monks but thats it)

Mesmers are quite good at killing monks. Several times I've taken down the monk I was assigned to.

ethornber · Jun 08, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I find a lot of rangers to be 'fire and forget' with their conditions - they know it'll kill you, so they load you up and move to the next target. Against those rangers, Illusion of Weakness provides a nice safety net.

Pyrthas · Jun 08, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I really don't enjoy playing 4v4 with my mesmer. I don't think that mesmers are very useful in unorganized teams. I, at least, think of my role in pvp as shutting down casters. I don't have to kill them and I don't have to take them out of the game completely; I just have to bring them down enough to make them ineffective. Of course, that's only useful if the rest of the team is taking advantage of it, because they won't be ineffective forever. Shutting down a monk does no good if nobody else is doing something that the monk is supposed to prevent.

Mesmers aren't quite like control decks in Magic, but they're similar in at least this respect: Control isn't useful without a win condition. As a mesmer, your win condition is your allies. That's true for everyone, but it's especially true for mesmers; we just don't get very good damage (and we really don't get good damage if we focus on control).

And I farm with my Me/Mo, too.

Haung Yu · Jun 08, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

If you use Illusion of Weakness, you'll have to put points into Illusion Magic. If that isn't a problem, then take along Clumsiness and/or Ineptitude. These are very good skills to use against rangers and warriors. Simply using these two skills can lock one ranger or warrior in Blindness Land.

Tellani Artini · Jun 08, 2005, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Thanks to confirm this "theory". it says;
Monks defeat Rangers
Rangers defeat Mesmers
Mesmers defeat Elementars
Elementars defeat Necros
Necros Defeat Warriors
Warriors run around in circles and suicide.

I think Rangers are much more effective at killing elementalists; bow interrupts are limited by the arrow's flight time, so they have no chance of knocking out a fast caster or monk's spells selectively. Elementalists, as we all know, have ludicrously long casting times. Now factor in the Ranger's 100 base armor against all elemental damage. Yeah, I take 53 damage from hydra meteors in the desert, and that's in druid armor. With a change of tactics (probably switching to debilitating shot for energy denial, precision/crippling shot for anti-evade, and using the hell out of DoT) a ranger might be able to counter a mes nearly as effectively as as they counter an elementalist.

The point being, I don't think the balance is so straightforward. Any profession can counter any other profession with the right skillset. I'm still trying to think of what rangers can't counter.

As for surviving against them, start piling on the DoT (illusion stuff) until they use troll unguent, which has a 3 second cast time. Nuke it with cry of frustration or leech signet and watch them panic. Combine that with empathy, and they'll have serious thoughts about running away. I can't think of a better "passive" way to survive them than distortion. Amateur rangers may tend to panic when someone actually pays attention to them in combat.

ethornber · Jun 08, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Amateur rangers may tend to panic when someone actually pays attention to them in combat.

Quoted for absolute truth. A lot of early-game players pick characters based on a certain preconception and psychology. Ranged combat characters, in their unrefined form, tend to be very uncomfortable with close confrontation.

Unfortunately, if you're against a ranger player who /doesn't/ fit the type, you're boned.

Goonter · Jun 08, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I always thought it was
warrior > ranger > elementist > warrior
mesmer > monk > necro > ...?mesmer?

Anyhow, In my opinion, mesmers are the softest target in the game. Why?, cuz low armor and people general dont think to protect them like they would a monk. Plus they dont have the defencive skills of either the monk or elementist.
They are sort of under appreshated, but if you specalize in killing or stopping monks, your very valuable.
(Most people know that your best equiped to do this, thats another reason your a priorty target)
Id think if there was a class that a mesmer would have a hard time with, it would be the ranger. You at least have skills to slow a warrior within good range.
My advice, move a lot, (so arrows miss) take cover (so arrows cant hit) invest in fast casting so you can hit who you have to and move.

Good skills to use to get around rangers:
Defence: Distortion, Illusion of Haste, Empathy, Mantra of Concentration or Mantra of Resolve

To stop rangers:
Offensive: Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Spirit of Failure, Spirit Shackles, Empathy

Im guessing to some degree. I dont really play a mesmer, but I do play a ranger. Im thinking these would work against me most.

Mercurio Riven · Jun 08, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

One problem is the slow attack speed of rangers. This makes empathy less effective than against fast attacking warriors. If I'm just spreading conditions around, I will usually ignore empathy if my health is high enough. The thing that really screws me as a ranger is spirit shackles. Take away my energy and I'm just a drunk guy throwing darts.

Axehilt · Jun 08, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Goonter's post is about right. At least in the Team PVP arenas (not the highly competitive HoH stuff) I've found Distortion + Illusion of Weakness to be highly effective.

Kershent · Jun 08, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Uh, commenting the sub-subject of this thread, there's no R-P-S system in GW. A mesmer can kill just about anything (except a ranger, apparantly) if they're built for it. I can shift a few skills around and change from anti-caster to anti-melee. Rangers are tough, but they're still not invincible.

As for staying alive, I don't bother with all those defensive spells. If I'm getting harrassed by something, I target them. Even when I have my anti-monk build out, I can still shut down just about anything (I keep Imagined Burden with me for warriors, since it's easiest to just run). So really, the best way to stay alive as a mesmer is to shift your focus to the person trying to kill you.

Tellani Artini · Jun 08, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercurio Riven

The thing that really screws me as a ranger is spirit shackles. Take away my energy and I'm just a drunk guy throwing darts.

Quoted for truth.

Padre · Jun 08, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Quoted for truth.

beat me to it

I've found that my ele/mes tends to use mesmer skills to absolutely destroy casters, and elementalist skills to smack fighters/rangers around. Between backfire, interrupts, shame/guilt and distraction you can make a caster's life miserable for a long time. For the fighters, evenerating charge, lightning surge, chain lightning, and lightning orb do quite nicely, thankyouverymuch. About the only mesmer skill i use regularly against fighters is energy burn, as it tends to do as much if not more damage to targets with extremely high armor values than even lightning orb, and for 5 less mana

Zeru · Jun 08, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

spirit shackles is a great way to keep a ranger out of the picture. empathy? what a joke, unless like stated above, you like picking skills to use on bad rangers.

To stay alive, rely on your monk. Mesmers have high priority targeting for most people but they are not really a defensive class unless in an abstract sense. Fulfill your role of shutting down 2 monks or 2 eles and your monks will have less time needed to keep you alive (cause the enemy will die faster) or will be receiving a lot less damage otherwise on themselves or other characters and can divert more energy to healing you. That's the problem with arenas, they lock you into this mindset that you have to be completely self-sufficient in pvp. Hardly true.

there is no set counter-class rps system or anything like that in guild wars. you can draw general examples. for example, warriors are sustained dps, eles are spike damagers, mes are anti-casters, necros are very specialized but have better anti-warrior stuff than mes, and rangers are good at everything though not the best, but not much more specific than that.

Aranador · Jun 08, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

So what you are saying is - you are good against some enemies, but weak against others?

OMFG how did guildwars come up with the idea of having classes with strengths AND weaknesses? Its a bloody brilliant idea! Imagine that - a game where no one is better than every single other opponent!

shawn23233 · Jun 10, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatMhat

here's the situation.

you've 1 monk. you're in 4v4. for whatever reason, you're not getting what you need. you're on your own. sound familiar?
'

you already lost going into team PvP "on you're own".

I gotta say the entire premise is flawed. As a mesmer you dont keep yourself alive (in Team PvP anyway), a healer does. You can help by staying mobile and trying to remain as "stealthy" as possible. In the end however your problem here is a crappy monk.

Also Rangers are our bain. We can do very little to them and they can really make our lives miserable, if you ever figure out a way around that please let me know LOL but its certainly not just you.