Curse

Xinil · May 31, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Has anyone EVER seen this in their PvP career in the tombs? I sure haven't. I'll tell you what I see a shitload of:

Group needs Warrior!
Group needs 3 (THREE) monks
Group needs 2 Air Eles
Group needs Mes
Group needs Necro

Do you ever, EVER see, "Group needs ranger". NO.

So I ask you this, is there not something seriously wrong with our class?

Please don't bring PvE into the table. I couldn't care less about PvE.

- Talendor ...a very frustrated ranger.

Soul Monarch · May 31, 2005, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Nope, but there are usually more Rangers than anything else, so most groups fill that slot faster than you can say "Poopty Puepty Pants-ss."

Xinil · May 31, 2005, 07:30 AM // 07:30

What I'm trying to say is that we don't have "slot". We're an accessory class.

CtrlAltDel · May 31, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

nah just too many
so its always filled within the first half of the group already

Axehilt · May 31, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I dunno...I wouldn't immediately assume Rangers are worthless.

I would blame the lack of "looking for Rangers" purely on player ignorance - players honestly not being aware of the strengths of Rangers.

Personally I'd love to try an all-ranger Tombs PVP group sometime with Ventrilo/Teamspeak. Seems like it'd be insanely powerful. Bunch of R/Mos, a few Mo/Rs, and maybe R/Mes for super-distruption. Lots of rituals stacked up and tons of focus fire with a skilled target caller who know when to switch.

rii · May 31, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

How about you all go r/e with barrage and conjureand tigers fury, and spam on the same target omgwtf 8x35= 280 dps before armour (-.-)
Personally, the ranger class seems to be a pve class, along with necros. They are good team support there, since you dont actually have to be killer at your role to beat the creeps. Therefore jack of all trades nature makes them useful in pve if they bring jack of all trade skills. However, many dont, and end up in the wrong end of the spectrum... but still retain their use.

However, in pvp you dont need jack of all trades, you want specialisation. and while i ranger could just focus on interupting, it goes against his nature, and you end up with a medicore interrupter. and people dont want mediocre, so they get a mesmer. or you try and focus on damage, but then people get a warrior or a ele depending on whether they want spike or sustained. And you could heal a bit, but again, just get a monk. rangers dont have a specific role, except for nature rituals and traps, and for most people thats not enough to make them want one.

Ensign · May 31, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

It simply isn't a mission-critical class in organized PvP. Couple that with it being both the hands down most popular class in the game and the most badly played class in the game, and you have all the ingredients for a character that's treated more as a warm body than a critical component of a team.

Couple all this with the aformentioned point about Rangers not specializing nearly as well as the other classes, and you have a niche character that fills key holes on a team, not a cornerstone build that people work around.

Peace,
-CxE

Canook · May 31, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

you just have to be good with a ranger. w/r or r/mo are probably the two best combos, personally. also with high expertise, rangers can do some decent tanking, whirling defense is godly. throw dirt. concussion shot. dust trap. frozen soil. skills like that are really useful. i never have a problem finding a tombs group. i guess you just have to find that right balance of skills, because thats what it comes down to. and if u got frozen soil, and some good healing, ur team becomes godly. just experiment with your skills, and tell people what you have to offer.

Spirit Firefly · May 31, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

Nope, but there are usually more Rangers than anything else, so most groups fill that slot faster than you can say "Poopty Puepty Pants-ss."

Or Schfifty five

Howling Wind · May 31, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

True rangers aren't very good at specializing but remember an R/Me is a very disruptive build with domination magic + ranger skills to be very anti-caster, throw in some illusion magic with arcane conundrum and you can easily land that concussion shot. Also don't forget Frozen Soil, many tomb groups would want a ranger just for that skills, very effective.

The only problem with rangers is that if their ineruption skills were more immediate, then they will be highly favoured in PvP, the fact that alot of skills have 0 casting time doesn't mean its immediate, because you have the fire rate + arrow time and that easily makes it go over 2 seconds to land a shot, combine that with tigers fury and you can manage just 2 seconds or under. If it wasn't for fire rate and arrow time, rangers would be thought more often as really good and effective interupters on their own.

rii · May 31, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Thats the point, they can do it, but someone else can do it better.if you want frozen soil, get a secondary ranger on your mesmer or something... most mesmers can be fairly relaxed about secondary class, they only need themselves for their main job if done correctly.

Sting · May 31, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

As for being the most played Id have to disagree I see far more Wariors and Monks than rangers any more (I mean lets face it those that want groups wont play ranger for long). From what I understand rangers used to be one of the best classes in the game untill A-net Nerfed a couple of thier skills. Now they can only interupt well and that is limited because most people only use instant or quick cast skills for PvP. My R/Me's best weapon is his energy steal's and any other ??/Me class can do that and be a more "desirable" primary. Which is one of the reasons I pretty much stoped playing I mean if I wanted to play another nerfed Ranger/Archer class type Id go back to DAoC or give WoW another try.

Lasher Dragon · May 31, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It simply isn't a mission-critical class in organized PvP. Couple that with it being both the hands down most popular class in the game and the most badly played class in the game, and you have all the ingredients for a character that's treated more as a warm body than a critical component of a team.

The most-played AND most badly played class IME is of course the WaMo - which is doubly stupid because of how little skill it takes to play them in the first place. I've never had a total party kill from an idiotic ranger. I can't count how many times some jackass WaMo has successfully destroyed an entire party.

ElevenBravo · May 31, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xinil

What I'm trying to say is that we don't have "slot". We're an accessory class.

True. Ranger isnt a essential class needed to pvp. Although they do come in handy and are viable options. A ranger with distracting shot who has a keen eye for rezzers is very powerful, but not essential. And traps are nice.

FrogDevourer · May 31, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

which is doubly stupid because of how little skill it takes to play them in the first place.

...and how little skill it takes to shut them down as well. As a primary monk, I just love to see 2+ w/mo running after me. I know my team will grant me some invulnerability pretty easily. I'm much more afraid of mesmers disruption/energy denial and air elementalists damage spikes.

Leventh · May 31, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Its true. We are a support class.

But remove the support on any key structure and what are you left with? An ill-equipped accident waiting to happen.

Sting · May 31, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leventh

Its true. We are a support class.

But remove the support on any key structure and what are you left with? An ill-equipped accident waiting to happen.

Not really groups that do have a ranger is more the exception, most go without a ranger and do quite well (unless they are all lying when they say they dont want or need a ranger in the group). Most of the time a Ranger is picked for his/her secondary skill. Support classes are not really needed because they can pickup the "support" skills needed from someones secondary.

Vindexus · May 31, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canook

you just have to be good with a ranger. w/r or r/mo are probably the two best combos, personally. also with high expertise, rangers can do some decent tanking, whirling defense is godly. throw dirt. concussion shot. dust trap. frozen soil. skills like that are really useful. i never have a problem finding a tombs group. i guess you just have to find that right balance of skills, because thats what it comes down to. and if u got frozen soil, and some good healing, ur team becomes godly. just experiment with your skills, and tell people what you have to offer.

Off topic: There are very few reasons I can see to go W/R.

On topic: Rangers, to me, just aren't specialized enough to replace anyone in a build I would make. Trappers are underrated IMO, though. And perhaps a R/Me with Poison Arrow and Epidemic.

Xellos · May 31, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

1. Mesmers are better as a anti-caster then a ranger. The only thing a ranger has over a mesmer is debilitating shot. Period. Concussion shot? That things a joke. It requires a member of your party to constantly be hitting them to make use of it. Mesmer skills like power block or arcane condrunum or backfire force action to be taken from the other side, while you are free to cause chaos to other players. I would never take a ranger over a mesmer unless it is for energy denial.

2. Frozen Soil is not worth it vs teams that have huge offense, which is exactly what the current flavour is, hence why warriors and rangers are not all that popular. You don't see HoH teams requesting war/mos, because sheer DPS is pointless if it never comes to fruition.

3. For DPS, the arrow arguement can be made, since barely anyone uses shields up at this point in tombs. Arrows have a advantage, but 1 ranger isn't going to make it happen, not with the overpowered enchantments monks run at the moment. No, you'd rather have a necromancer who can make mass bone fiends and just swarm them with 50 volleys of arrows. At this point, necromancer has more use then rangers in HoH.

Typhoon · May 31, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Frozen soil affects every single person within range of the spirit, both friendly and enemy. All nature rituals behave like this, which is why you don't see many rangers using nature rituals.

Nature Rituals would be more viable if they severely nerfed the range on a few of them, so that you can have strategic control over which area of players get buffed. I'd rather see quickening Zephyr have a much smaller range, that way you can drop it next to your own caster group for buffs, and not have it reach across the battlefield to the enemy caster group and buff them as well.