Curse

Eonwe · Jun 27, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Don't know why you would use anything else other than a hammer for pvp. *Shrug*

.

Ensign · Jun 27, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Because they aren't FOTM anymore and you want to run buffstacked killing machines? Sword/Axe guys are still the scariest single-target damage dealers the game has, after all...

Peace,
-CxE

Eonwe · Jun 27, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Bleh, i go real.

Arclyte · Jun 27, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Hammer is the only weapon I will bring to PvP, because I bring a pretty nasty disrupt. A Warrior should contribute more to a team than just swinging his sword arm.

Bazooka · Jun 27, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

I agree that a W/E hammer master is something to be feared in PVP

Golfgimp · Jun 28, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

What are the best shafts to use for a hammer? I thought lightening would be best for pvp but I recently found a earth damage shaft. whats this do? what are the differences between damage types.
I'm dutifully trying an axe right now but hammer seems to be best for PVP. You can break opponents casting with that knock down and put an opponent on defence with a couple of big hits.

Epinephrine · Jun 28, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Best is probaly Furious? Double adrenaline lets you charge for those big skills more effectively, which is important given the slower swing rate of a hammer.

Lord Malikai · Jun 29, 2005, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Hrmm. A touchy subject. Hammer knockdown skills look good on paper but I have tested them in PvP combat and found them lacking, in one area specifically. Casters run. Alot. Yes, sprint helps but I notice that catching up to them, hitting them from behind, running again... etc... until you build up enough adrenaline to knock them down, throw an aftershock and maybe hit them once more, takes far too much time. I've never known a caster to stand still unless it was a smiting monk or a caster who had anti-warrior spells. Take into account he will probably run around in circles, circling the combat zone, this will make you get stuck on other enemies slowing you down even more.

When will you face off against a warrior ? So what, you can blind and weaken.. woooo. The only time you will be beating on a warrior is when that warriors team is dead and he is the last target, and that means he's already lost. I constantly hear about "I beat a swordsman with my hammer warrior" or vice versa, but that point is moot since your team is probably backing you up since they have noone else to kill.

I'll stick to my sword. I like being able to keep up with casters. Crippling, though it may be removed is something they will have to stop and remove. This gives you enough time to do as much damage as a hammer warrior would with a knockdown. Half of the time crippling is not removed, which gives swordsmen the advantage. Especially since it is a energy skill that does not have to charge. Swordsmen also get savage slash, a must for pvp. Yet another energy skill that does not have to be charged with adrenaline. In fact, warriors endurance plays into the swordsmens pvp build very well. Use Final Thrust for a major spike and you're set.

I dunno, maybe I was just uncomfortable with the slowness and constant frustration of chasing and trying to build adrenaline for the knockdowns. Maybe I was not overly impressed with the larger damage spikes that seemed easier to heal against than constant swinging. Or maybe I'm just old school pokey stick kinda guy. I guess what it all comes down to is personal preference. In the end, it's not if you win or lose, it's how good you look while doing it.

Eonwe · Jun 29, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Malikai

Hrmm. A touchy subject. Hammer knockdown skills look good on paper but I have tested them in PvP combat and found them lacking, in one area specifically. Casters run. Alot. Yes, sprint helps but I notice that catching up to them, hitting them from behind, running again... etc... until you build up enough adrenaline to knock them down, throw an aftershock and maybe hit them once more, takes far too much time. I've never known a caster to stand still unless it was a smiting monk or a caster who had anti-warrior spells. Take into account he will probably run around in circles, circling the combat zone, this will make you get stuck on other enemies slowing you down even more.

When will you face off against a warrior ? So what, you can blind and weaken.. woooo. The only time you will be beating on a warrior is when that warriors team is dead and he is the last target, and that means he's already lost. I constantly hear about "I beat a swordsman with my hammer warrior" or vice versa, but that point is moot since your team is probably backing you up since they have noone else to kill.

I'll stick to my sword. I like being able to keep up with casters. Crippling, though it may be removed is something they will have to stop and remove. This gives you enough time to do as much damage as a hammer warrior would with a knockdown. Half of the time crippling is not removed, which gives swordsmen the advantage. Especially since it is a energy skill that does not have to charge. Swordsmen also get savage slash, a must for pvp. Yet another energy skill that does not have to be charged with adrenaline. In fact, warriors endurance plays into the swordsmens pvp build very well. Use Final Thrust for a major spike and you're set.

I dunno, maybe I was just uncomfortable with the slowness and constant frustration of chasing and trying to build adrenaline for the knockdowns. Maybe I was not overly impressed with the larger damage spikes that seemed easier to heal against than constant swinging. Or maybe I'm just old school pokey stick kinda guy. I guess what it all comes down to is personal preference. In the end, it's not if you win or lose, it's how good you look while doing it.

I'm not sure how you can say hammer knockdowns are lacking, unless you were playing it incorrectly, or had a crappy build. You say you had a problem with monks running? Bring something like bull's strike. Critical + extra damage + knockdown is always fun. If you don't want to do that though, why not just build up your adrenaline on a different target and then spike the monk? That would be the intelligent thing to do. Hammer knockdowns are certainly not lacking if played correctly. Also, here's a tip. Aftershock on a hammer warrior may seem like a nice spike, but it isn't, especially if you're the only one using it. If a monk isn't getting cross-healed, you should be able to kill him easily, atleast if you're doing the knockdown chains correctly.

Also, you won't do anywhere near as much damage with your sword as a guy with a hammer. Not to mention you won't be able to completely shut down a monk and prevent him from healing himself and his team mates for a few seconds.

You see, the nice thing about hammer warriors is that they can get on seperate monks. After they build up their adrenaline, they can then chain their knockdowns at the same time, preventing the monks from healing themselves or one another. Most of the time if you know what you're doing you'll be able to kill the monk without any help.

Also, you mentioned that hammer spikes are easier to heal against? Please explain how you're going to heal yourself when you're on the ground.

.

Edit:

The best haft to use in my opinion is either Sundering or Furious (10% chance respectively). Ofcourse you should also have another weapon with some type of elemental haft (i prefer ebon or shocking) to switch to according to armor types.

Phades · Jun 30, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I'm not sure how you can say hammer knockdowns are lacking, unless you were playing it incorrectly, or had a crappy build. You say you had a problem with monks running? Bring something like bull's strike. Critical + extra damage + knockdown is always fun. If you don't want to do that though, why not just build up your adrenaline on a different target and then spike the monk? That would be the intelligent thing to do. Hammer knockdowns are certainly not lacking if played correctly. Also, here's a tip. Aftershock on a hammer warrior may seem like a nice spike, but it isn't, especially if you're the only one using it. If a monk isn't getting cross-healed, you should be able to kill him easily, atleast if you're doing the knockdown chains correctly.

Also, you won't do anywhere near as much damage with your sword as a guy with a hammer. Not to mention you won't be able to completely shut down a monk and prevent him from healing himself and his team mates for a few seconds.

You see, the nice thing about hammer warriors is that they can get on seperate monks. After they build up their adrenaline, they can then chain their knockdowns at the same time, preventing the monks from healing themselves or one another. Most of the time if you know what you're doing you'll be able to kill the monk without any help.

Also, you mentioned that hammer spikes are easier to heal against? Please explain how you're going to heal yourself when you're on the ground.

.

Edit:

The best haft to use in my opinion is either Sundering or Furious (10% chance respectively). Ofcourse you should also have another weapon with some type of elemental haft (i prefer ebon or shocking) to switch to according to armor types.

Bull's strike is a buggy buggy skill. All the other guy has to do is stop running when you get close, pause moving for a moment to allow your character to begin the swing animation, then start moving again, or just turn around before you can hit. The sad thing is, i just cant think of anything really good to replace it with that would compliment the build more fluidly.

For the seasoned monk, 1 hammer warrior isnt going to bother him too much. Its just a matter of timing when to use protective spirit or mark of protection, then moving a little and healing once. In organized group play, perma wards or just about any condition ruins the hammer warrior elementalist and slows down all other types considerably.

As far as the haft type goes, ive found that i prefer the sundering for the greater potental damage.

Eclair · Jun 30, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Bull's strike is a buggy buggy skill. All the other guy has to do is stop running when you get close, pause moving for a moment to allow your character to begin the swing animation, then start moving again, or just turn around before you can hit. The sad thing is, i just cant think of anything really good to replace it with that would compliment the build more fluidly.

For the seasoned monk, 1 hammer warrior isnt going to bother him too much. Its just a matter of timing when to use protective spirit or mark of protection, then moving a little and healing once. In organized group play, perma wards or just about any condition ruins the hammer warrior elementalist and slows down all other types considerably.

As far as the haft type goes, ive found that i prefer the sundering for the greater potental damage.

How can you tell he's using bull's strike though?

Eonwe · Jun 30, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Bull's strike is a buggy buggy skill. All the other guy has to do is stop running when you get close, pause moving for a moment to allow your character to begin the swing animation, then start moving again, or just turn around before you can hit. The sad thing is, i just cant think of anything really good to replace it with that would compliment the build more fluidly.

For the seasoned monk, 1 hammer warrior isnt going to bother him too much. Its just a matter of timing when to use protective spirit or mark of protection, then moving a little and healing once. In organized group play, perma wards or just about any condition ruins the hammer warrior elementalist and slows down all other types considerably.

As far as the haft type goes, ive found that i prefer the sundering for the greater potental damage.

Doesn't happen to me

wheel · Jun 30, 2005, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Malikai

Hrmm. A touchy subject. Hammer knockdown skills look good on paper but I have tested them in PvP combat and found them lacking, in one area specifically. Casters run. Alot. Yes, sprint helps but I notice that catching up to them, hitting them from behind, running again... etc... until you build up enough adrenaline to knock them down, throw an aftershock and maybe hit them once more, takes far too much time. I've never known a caster to stand still unless it was a smiting monk or a caster who had anti-warrior spells. Take into account he will probably run around in circles, circling the combat zone, this will make you get stuck on other enemies slowing you down even more.

like eonwe said, Sprint + Bull's strike

Soup4Brains · Jun 30, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Hammer rocks. I have the Warpick that came as a GameStop bonus. The only problem is, I'm paranoid about somehow accidentally deleting it.
Any ideas on how to overcome my irrational fear?

Phades · Jun 30, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

How can you tell he's using bull's strike though?

You cant, but i imagine for those who are chased around enough like that desire to avoid the extra damage from being hit while on the run and just developed a pattern for it. Would be nice to know if this was intended or not, because it would be really nice to do /taunt at the right time and have enemy spells/skills just randomly fail for no real reason. (just grabbed /taunt out of the air, no real reason behind it)

Its happened to me enough, where ive had a few obscenities over it and beyond seeing the 3 major causes of it to fubar or fail. The skill can timeout mid chase as well, which is a pain. But its most annoying when i have it activated just before getting in range, the guy stops and the skill fires, he gets hit, then nothing happens and he just goes about his merry way afterwards. (note target in question didnt have warior for a secondary profession so no balanced stance issue here)

ICURADik · Jun 30, 2005, 05:25 AM // 05:25

You do have teamates... If catching that player is such an issue have a ranger throw a Pin Down, or the Elementalist throw a Gale. Teamwork can really make a hammer warrior shine.

Phades · Jun 30, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Yeah, working with a hamstring warrior makes being a hammer warrior nicer, alot nicer. In larger group clusters plus terrain obsticals, its not always easy to tell if someone is moving around from a distance, really only the warriors know it. It still doesnt excuse the dodgy behavior of that particular skill though or the mechanics of move/pause to attack/then move again while the target is always moving.

Lord Malikai · Jun 30, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

The hammer/sword debate always gets hot. I tried em all (and yea, bulls strike is nice, I even use it on my swordsman sometimes). I think each have their own advantages and disadvatages and it comes down to what works in that particular instance. In some matches where I was using a sword, I wished I had a hammer. In some instances where I was using a hammer, I cursed and swore I would never leave my sword at home again.

They should make brass knuckles for those of us who are sick of this debate.

nechronius · Jun 30, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I like the fact that there CAN be such debate about the merits and drawbacks with each warrior type and which is the best. The lack of concensus points to deep playability and is frankly just another thing about the game that impresses me.

For my money I prefer the hammer warrior, although I do have a dedicated sword warrior build. A lot of guys in my guild also like the axe. It's a pretty even split.

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 30, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I play casters myself. I find warriors crude, and do not want to be lumped in with the lot of them.

From a casters point of view, hammers are more deadly. Knockdown interuptions bug casters.

My question is why do hammer warriors chase targets? Why do you need to chase a target? If it is the called target your team mates will be taking care of it as well. If you are off chasing another target byself I hope it is because you are filling in a roll for your team. And not because you saw something shiny. I would feel that Hammer Warriors would want to get into the middle of everybody. Stay near large numbers. That way you can AoE knockdown. Interupt a whole group of Air Ele's right in the middle of their chain lightning.

Warriors are stubborn too, when it comes to their weapon. They love their firey dragon sword. I have tried and tried to prove to guild members that hammer is better in PvP, but they always bring a sword. They are like, I tried hammer it really wasn't that good. Do you have any elite skills unlocked? No. Do you have any hammer skill unlocked? No. Did you put any attributes into hammer? A couple.