Curse

Kaleban · Jul 14, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Hi all, just looking for some thoughts on this.

First I want to make a character that has both Mesmer and Necromancer skills. What I'm having trouble with is deciding which to use!

The thing is, both Fast Casting and Soul Reaping are largely situational. Fast Casting doesn't really help with the Mes's interrupts, since they're so fast already (1/4 second), which means it only really helps with longer spell casting times, which overall isn't THAT big of a deal from what I've heard.

Soul Reaping on the other hand, isn't that useful at all in PvP, plus it has no linked skills IIRC.

Armor wise, both have some interesting choices, and while the Mes has Rogue's and Enchanter's, the Necro has better overall armor, and a scar pattern set for higher energy.

Skill-wise, I want the character to be able to either single-target nuke with Blood Magic/Death Magic, or hex the crap out of a single target. If I take Necro primary, i can use runes that allow me to do much better pinpoint damage, with Mes primary I get longer duration on hexes and the like.

So if I decide to alternate (with attribute refunds) between pinpoint nuker or battlefield dominator as I level up to decide which I like better, which primary should I go with? The fact that Necros are generally not high priority targets compared to Mesmers and Monks means that I could also take all Mes skills using my Necro primary as a "cover" of sorts.

Just having a tough time deciding. I already have a Mo/W and a R/E, so this last combo is for unlocking skills and also all three characters eventually will be PvP.

Thanks for the help in advance!

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 14, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

From what I've read in terms of skill damage, vs. good players anyway, mes/nec doesn't do damage.

They're the class designed to make everyone suffer long times. So just go dominator and use Mes as primary because most hexes take quite a bit of cast time. I got my fast cast to 7 and all my 2s. hexes no longer have a cast bar. Yay ^_^

acidteardrop · Jul 14, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

A very nice (broad, I won't give you the specifics) build I used focused around a Me/N hexer. It basically could shut down any class (never used it in PvP when I finished it, so I'm not sure how well it'll do there) with anti-caster and anti-physical hexes, while Soul Barbs hit for a nice punch each time. With fast casting (which is why you take the Mesmer primary), they'll have quite a few hexes to disable them in very little time. Play around with it if it sounds like it'd work. Again, I'm not sure how it'd run in PvP.

Kaleban · Jul 14, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Right, but if I want to experiment between a mean hexer and a pinpoint nuker, is it better to be Mes or Nec primary, i.e. for the runes and/or Awaken the Blood to get BM really high?

Is it better in the long run to have Fast Cast or Soul-Reaping, and also whose armors are better?

Also, take into consideration that while a Mes is a primary target, a Nec is certainly a secondary or even tertiary target.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 14, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

The reason they are such and such target is because they are so effective.

If you're a mesmer primary, people will assume you can pump spells out like a factory. If you're a necro, it's easy to defend against you since you don't gain any benefit at all till a body drops. Your spells come out slow too, all your bomber spells anyway so interruption is a simple task.

If you're going to nuke, do a read up on elementalist skills before you look at necro. On the average, the most damaging necro skill would be Grenth's Balance, but I don't like it due to the fact you want to be near 0 hp to make it effective. If you Arcane Echo Grenth's and nail two high hp enemies with it, ah, then maybe you have your nuker. But you have to Blood Sacrifice yourself to make the nuking worthwhile.

I say stick to Mes/Nec and run hexes route. You'll be able to deal with a plethora of more enemies. Necro half to eat enchants and warriors/non-casters, mesmer half for everything else. Quite good.

theclam · Jul 14, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Why don't you just make PvP characters and test it out?

Jul 14, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Most mes/nec nec/mes build are incredibly bad. Whatever you do DO NOT engage in single target hex stacking. What are the most powerful Mes/Nec builds generally looking like? Shutdown skills with enchantment removal, maybe a BIP or Energy Drain in there. Generally trying to be offensive with only a few hexes thrown in, and if their hexing people it's generally not stacked onto one target.

free4all · Jul 14, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Blackace:
What do you suggest as a good secondary for mesmer then, and why? I was considering a Mes/Nec just because I'd like to unlock nec skills for my account, since I already have everything else but Nec and Ranger covered.

knives · Jul 14, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

If this is for PvP, go Nec/Mes. Go interrupter and only bring along mesmer skills, and maybe a rend (though it may not be needed if you have like drain enchantment or something). When you PvP, do you go for the necro, or the mesmer first? The mesmer of course. So if you disguise your necro to become a mesmer interrupter, then it works out nicely. Fast casting and soul reaping aren't that different imo. Since soul reaping barely helps in PvP and fast casting on interrupts are useless. If you want to go Mes/Mo then put points into fast casting and maybe healing. Then be a rezbot.

free4all · Jul 14, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

So I could be an effective interrupter without any mesmer runes?

Zeru · Jul 14, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

FC isn't that great but being able to have a superior domination rune is definitely worth it if you can't decide.

If you can't think of a secondary for mes go with monk and be your teams resser with restore life+fast casting.

The use I can see for Mes/Nec is going primary mes shutdown with maybe Rend thrown in there.

knives · Jul 14, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by free4all

So I could be an effective interrupter without any mesmer runes?

As if you want to only interrupt, then yes. Since most interrupts have loooong cooldown times, you'd be sitting there half the time. Just bring along blackout and since it makes your skills recharge again, use it when you have used all the interrupts that are not spammable (power spike/leak etc), and then that denies others while it boosts your skill recharge. (I don't know if thats how it works though, like if you cast a spell with 30 sec recharge, use black out, will it still be recharging by the time your skills are enabled again?)

QuixotesGhost · Jul 14, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

The reason they are such and such target is because they are so effective.

If you're a mesmer primary, people will assume you can pump spells out like a factory. If you're a necro, it's easy to defend against you since you don't gain any benefit at all till a body drops. Your spells come out slow too, all your bomber spells anyway so interruption is a simple task.

If you're going to nuke, do a read up on elementalist skills before you look at necro. On the average, the most damaging necro skill would be Grenth's Balance, but I don't like it due to the fact you want to be near 0 hp to make it effective. If you Arcane Echo Grenth's and nail two high hp enemies with it, ah, then maybe you have your nuker. But you have to Blood Sacrifice yourself to make the nuking worthwhile.

Personally I'd mix it with Illusion of Weakness.

Scaphism · Jul 14, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

It sounds like you're asking which character you should make to unlock Mesmer and Necro skills for in PVE, so that you can later use them in PVP.

I'd strongly recommend necro primary for PVE, especially over mesmer. PVE mesmer primaries have it rough- there's almost no need for fast casting and you don't need a 15 in domination vs monster AI. Your interrupts aren't better because of a higher inspiration attribute- they interrupt the same amount, they just give different rewards. That, and interrupts aren't nearly as important in PVE as they are in PVP.

Soul Reaping, on the other hand, really has a chance to shine in PVE. It's still conditional energy, but in PVE the condition is constantly being met (especially if you're doing things right).

Casting speed just isn't that important against the AI (outside of the annoying mobs with distracting shot, but you can usually beat those with positional awareness). Grab soul reaping and a superior death or blood rune and never look back.

For PVP, as others have said, make PVP character of both combinations and see which you prefer. Soul Reaping can pay off in the Hall of Heroes, but it's not worth pumping Arena or GVG matches IMO.

Kaleban · Jul 14, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I should clarify, my primary reason for doing this combo is because these two classes are the only ones I have yet to unlock (R/E and Mo/W).

So I'm basically trying to decide which one is more effective. It seems that the Necro is relatively weak as a primary in PvP, since its primary attribute is basically worthless. The Mes, with FC is better, but still not as awe-inspiring as something like DF or ES.

I'm thinking that if I go with the Mes/Nec, he'd be putting points into FC, Dom and Curses, for PvP, and would focus mainly on battle domination, interrupting casters and hexing wars/rangers. If I went Nec/Mes, I'd probably put points into BM, DM and Illusion, and the idea with this character is to act as an assassin of sorts, doing pinpoint damage that bypasses armor.

So really, the problem is that depending on the primary, the character's focus and abilities are radically different. I suppose that since both FC and SR are both tertiary in terms of consideration, it doesn't matter which one I pick as a primary!

I guess, when it comes right down to it, the Mes/Nec is the more versatile combination. At least until I figure out exactly what it is I want to do with this character!

[edit] lol, while I was typing this post, Scaphism posted his. And I think he's right, it makes more sense to go with Necro for PvE.