Curse

acidteardrop · Jul 11, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

My guild and I were debating this earlier, the usefulness and ability of Geomancers in PvP.

I was the only one opposed to them. Apparently my entire guild is obsessed with earth magic, and think it's the best thing in the entire game. Whether that's true or not for PvE I don't much care, it's decent is all that matters. However, I don't think it would be so useful for PvP, and I was wondering what others thought.

Geomancers alone (ignoring the secondary) wouldn't be terribly effective unless you're fighting someone who's braindead. Their most powerful spell, Crystal Wave, has a tiny area of effect, as does Aftershock. Since Earthquake (knocking down your enemies) has a 1.6 (I believe) cooldown time, it's useless with Aftershock, as anyone with a bit of sense could probably see it coming, and would get out of the way. DoT is useless because nobody is dumb enough to stand in it. Obsidian Flame is nice, but if you spam it you'll be in trouble with lack of energy (on that note I read somewhere once that there was a way to transfer exaustion with an elite necro spell- is that true?).

Basically, my concerns with geomancy is that their enchantments would be immediately stripped by almost any decent enemy party (especially in the Hall of Heroes), and their areas of effect are far too small, so you could nullify them completely by avoiding them. Their only use then would be casting wards around the monk, but then that restricts the monk to wanting to stay there, and DoT spells would knock them out.

Eh. Thoughts? Can a geomancer be useful in PvP?

arnansnow · Jul 11, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Geomancers have Wards (which rock) ignore damage spells (which rock), and other cool stuff. But having only them would likely not be very good.

acidteardrop · Jul 11, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Well think about how that would work against other players. The wards would rock against someone who doesn't have to be close to the enemies to hit them (which isn't a Geomancer), so that'd be a good support for a monk or other caster that hangs way back. However, the caster may also feel restricted to that for safety. Wards deter opponents, so a tank like a geomancer wouldn't go too well in them.

Obsidian Flesh would possibly prevent geomancers from being too bad, since then they couldn't be disenchanted. But then who would stand next to the geomancer? If a Geomancer can't get close, then all they have really is Obsidian Flame, which causes exaustion hard.

So I'm thinking that Geomancers are terrible for PvP, especially in the Hall of Heroes. I could be wrong, though. I guess basically I'm asking if I'm right or if someone can give me a really good argument that I'm not seeing. All my guild could give me was "WTF LOL U NUB GEOMANCERS ROXX0RZ AND PWN U CUZ THEY DO" (yes, that's horribly exaggerated).

Than · Jul 11, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I havn't PvPed much(ok, except for the trip from pre-searing I havn't PvPed at all

) but I was looking around the skills when I was looking to buy the game and one spell of earth magic cought my attention.

Iron Mist:
Description: For 5-15 seconds, target foe moves 90% slower than normal. That foe gains immunity to damage from all sources except lightning.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Earth Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Hex Spell.

Now couple that with a spike lightening ele and you basically got one slow ass opposing team/monk on your hands begging to be slaughtered.

Thoughts?

Calibretto_9 · Jul 11, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Ok, that all being said, I'm still drawn to the statement that there is a necro spell that transfers exhaustion. Can anyone tell me if this is true? If so, I'm thinking of elemental builds that spam the more powerful exhaustion spells and then send that nasty little exhaustion over to, say, an enemy monk? It sounds too good to be true. ^_^ But hey, if it is... Lay it on me.

PieXags · Jul 11, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

There's not a necro skill like that too my knowledge.

And about geomancers. Those wards are just awesome. Many times have the wards of a good geomancer saved our butts, keep in mind there are many different sorts including those against melee damage and what not. Earth magic as a whole can be pretty damn good, a few knockdowns and other things make for some high damage against casters typically, not many go around with earth damage reducing armor as well.

Tailon · Jul 11, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I play a warden (earth + protection prayers), and allthough I haven't PvP'ed much with her (usually play monk in PvP), she can handle a beating. All those block melee skills and wards can keep me alive for ages. Works really well for tanking in PvE at least.

To my experience though, one earth mage together with two air elemtalists, two monks, one mesmer, one warrior and one necro or ranger, makes a good team in PvP.

Scaphism · Jul 12, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

A group of geomancers is definitely workable.

It requires more coordination than a team of air elementalists though, for the reasons the OP already pointed out.
Their spells with the best damage potential have small AOE radii, so you have to work quickly and efficiently to get them into place, unlike air magic where the elementalists can all launch spells from a distance.

From my own experience, having held the hall agaist both types of spike damage, I fear a good earth spike team more than an air ele team.

Tellani Artini · Jul 12, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidteardrop

Geomancers alone (ignoring the secondary) wouldn't be terribly effective unless you're fighting someone who's braindead. Their most powerful spell, Crystal Wave, has a tiny area of effect, as does Aftershock. Since Earthquake (knocking down your enemies) has a 1.6 (I believe) cooldown time, it's useless with Aftershock, as anyone with a bit of sense could probably see it coming, and would get out of the way. DoT is useless because nobody is dumb enough to stand in it.

Can't be much worse than smiting. Just like any DoT, spam knockdowns to keep them in it. Weakness + stoning = good damage + knockdown. Necros can spam the hell out of enfeeble to get this going. I'd go with enfeeble + stoning + aftershock locking them in an eruption rather than crystal wave, as it disrupts much more and doesn't clear conditions.

Eonwe · Jul 12, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidteardrop

Well think about how that would work against other players. The wards would rock against someone who doesn't have to be close to the enemies to hit them (which isn't a Geomancer), so that'd be a good support for a monk or other caster that hangs way back. However, the caster may also feel restricted to that for safety. Wards deter opponents, so a tank like a geomancer wouldn't go too well in them.

Obsidian Flesh would possibly prevent geomancers from being too bad, since then they couldn't be disenchanted. But then who would stand next to the geomancer? If a Geomancer can't get close, then all they have really is Obsidian Flame, which causes exaustion hard.

So I'm thinking that Geomancers are terrible for PvP, especially in the Hall of Heroes. I could be wrong, though. I guess basically I'm asking if I'm right or if someone can give me a really good argument that I'm not seeing. All my guild could give me was "WTF LOL U NUB GEOMANCERS ROXX0RZ AND PWN U CUZ THEY DO" (yes, that's horribly exaggerated).

They would be terrible especially in the hall? Have you ever been to the hall? Most teams stand on or around the dias at the center of the map. If you have a spike group with say 4-5 earth elementalists w/ earthquake and aftershock there's no one that is surviving that spike, sorry. Ofcourse this does take a certain degree of coordination and timing however.

Tuna · Jul 12, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I think aftershock on a knocked down opponent is the largest amount of dmg you can do in one shot. If not, its certainly the easiest big hitter to execute.

Phades · Jul 12, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

The incidental damage from the combination aoe knockdown and aftershock is fairly nice too. Just running a simple fire build working with a w/e hammer/aftershock warrior was fairly nice. I kept them in place initially, the hammer warriror kept them in place after the initial knockdowns and used aftershock to hit the last bit of damage. This can be duplicated in many different ways and probably gale is the most reliable against a single target over time as all spell based knockdowns have some form of additional drain involved. This is achieved either by other spell hexes or conditions required or by exhaustion.

mamluk · Jul 12, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

For giggles, I sometimes run a geomancer in random 4v4- the earthquake, aftershock then crystal wave combo is quite nice- on a monk that is about 100+100+68+100 damage (depending on your level of earth magic) in a few seconds. If they are slowed by a teammate, then they usually cant get out of the wave of the spells after the earthquake.

In random arena, this is loads of fun. Haven't tried it anywhere else though.

Someone else mentioned stoning- it is a very nice spell too, the enfeeble and stoning combo is really nice keeping anyone down.

And another thing- running armor of earth (~+60 AL) and kinetic armor (~+40) AL is great. If I had obsidian flesh (20 AL) I would run that too. I think that with those three spells, you wouldn't be able to move fast, but you would be able to take incredible amounts of damage. That would be fun. In fact, it might be fun to run a monk/elementalist with those spells- monk primary so you can you be assured they would try to kill you first. All you would have to do is just stand there and hope your teammates can kill them.

Thom · Jul 12, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Earth is the most well-rounded skill line. You can do direct damage, aoe, interrupts, combos, solid defense and support all within the same line. Plus, the synergy between multiple users is better than air. Earth elementalists may be better as a solo support elem in PvP.

Satire Elexus · Jul 12, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calibretto_9

Ok, that all being said, I'm still drawn to the statement that there is a necro spell that transfers exhaustion. Can anyone tell me if this is true? If so, I'm thinking of elemental builds that spam the more powerful exhaustion spells and then send that nasty little exhaustion over to, say, an enemy monk? It sounds too good to be true. ^_^ But hey, if it is... Lay it on me.

There are a few Necro skills that transfer conditions. Thats what you might have heard.

john little · Jul 12, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

my geomancer build:

earth magic - level 15 (12+1+2)
energy storage - level 12 (11+1)
domination magic - level 8

obsidian flame
earthquake
aftershock
kinetic armour
obsidian flesh [e]
ward against melee
(diversion)
(arcane thievery)

obsidian flesh lasts 22 seconds with a +11% enchantment staff, meaning i'm spell attackable for 8 seconds out of every 30. Kinetic armour and WaM mean melee characters do very little damage. The earthquake & aftershock combo are great for taking out monks and preventing them running away, and even better for the NPC's in tombs. Obsidian flame is a great finisher, as it ignores armour.

The negatives of the build are: you are slow a lot of the time, you put yourself in harms way with aftershock, you exhaust yourself quite quickly. I'm not sure /Me is the best secondary choice, but its quite a fun build to play with.

Schorny · Jul 12, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Don't forget the most times overlooked "Iron Mist" and "Grasping Earth".

aphex twin · Jul 12, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I been using earth ele in 4v4 and it works well there since you can get close to the targets. In HoH I am sure a group of 2 or 3 earth eles standing on the altar would spike everyone to death! However I havent had much luck in gvg...

acidteardrop · Jul 12, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

They would be terrible especially in the hall? Have you ever been to the hall? Most teams stand on or around the dias at the center of the map. If you have a spike group with say 4-5 earth elementalists w/ earthquake and aftershock there's no one that is surviving that spike, sorry. Ofcourse this does take a certain degree of coordination and timing however.

I've been to the hall once for not very long, as my entire team was very uncoordinated. However, I was referring to how much enchantment removal I've heard about. Good luck keeping your earth/kinetic armour on. On top of that, there's the fact that no melee fighter is going to stand in a ward if you're tanking them, and nobody with a bit of sense is going to sit there and let you aftershock them. There's a cooldown time on earthquake, which gives them time to get up and get away before you can hit with the extra damage. By the time you get to Crystal Wave, they're already gone. Maybe I over-estimate human intelligence.

Quote:

I think aftershock on a knocked down opponent is the largest amount of dmg you can do in one shot. If not, its certainly the easiest big hitter to execute.

I believe if you're standing next to someone, Pheonix would do much the same, and they don't have to be knocked down. So if you're standing on top of them for aftershock anyway...
It also has a much bigger area of effect. The only drawback is that a lot of people have fire resistance on their torso. Well, that and there aren't any fire buffs to take the melee damage.

Quote:

I havn't PvPed much(ok, except for the trip from pre-searing I havn't PvPed at all ) but I was looking around the skills when I was looking to buy the game and one spell of earth magic cought my attention.

Iron Mist:
Description: For 5-15 seconds, target foe moves 90% slower than normal. That foe gains immunity to damage from all sources except lightning.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: 2 Seconds.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Earth Magic. Increases duration.
Skill Type: Hex Spell.

Now couple that with a spike lightening ele and you basically got one slow ass opposing team/monk on your hands begging to be slaughtered.

Thoughts?

I tried that a while ago. It's very nice for knocking out a monk or other caster (provided there's no Obsidian Flesh/Spell Breaker on hand). However, it's absolutely horrendous for PvE. You can only take out one target at a time. The drawback, of course, is exaustion. You can get through it, but it's a pain.

As for the necromancer skill transferring exaustion, I read it somewhere on these boards. I'm investigating it now.

Acan Vishnu · Jul 12, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Exhaustion is not a condition per se, it isn't transferable any more than morale bonus or death penalities are