Curse

Shifty · Aug 02, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I've beaten the game with a fire ele and have recently made a N/mo char. I've been doin some research on the whole necro profession and found it to be pretty interesting. I dont like melee, or being the spell interupter so w and me as sec are out for me. What i was thinking when i made my char was becoming a full blood death necro with some points in soul reaping to help with the limited energy. And then this idea came to me: wouldnt an ele primary with N sec be much more efficient as a Necro than a Necro primary can? I think with 10-10-10 in blood, death, and energy storage you can be a much more energy efficient while being the best necro you can be since soul reaping doesnt have any skills tied to it.
Besides the fact that Necros are one of the coolest looking primaries

, is there really any reason to choose it as one?

Nightsky · Aug 02, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

How is Energy Storage more efficient than Soul Reaping? The only thing Energy Storage will do is give you a larger energy pool, it won't make your spell cheaper or increase your energy regeneration. When your energy reach 0, you're out of steam. But when the necro energy is at 0, its just a matter of time before something dies and trigger Soul Reaping.

Its kinda like having 800 HP but no way to heal. I would rather have 400 HP and be able to heal. In the long run, Soul Reaping gives will give you more energy.

Phades · Aug 02, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Looking at the entire class in conjunction with the primary skill is alot more efficicent than looking at the skill individually. Elementalists have ways of increasing energy regeneration and increasing energy efficiency. While it is divided between their primary and secondary skill lines, they are all related.

If, for instance, monks did not have the healing line of spells, would you say that divine favor would be subpar? Or would they be wonderful healers, because every spell cast on an ally healed some damage?

rii · Aug 02, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Somone dying means you use the energy for when someone dies. Otherwise relying on that to give regen is awful in long battles. So primary necros are good for putrid spam. the second your energy goes up (level 10 sr) press putrid. Thus, its free.

Rey Lentless · Aug 02, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I would go with the necro primary. The runes, and soul reaping will give you more than what energy storage will in general. And if you're going to summon at all, then soul reaping will do even more for you.

MSecorsky · Aug 02, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Looking at necro skills (really for the first time actually looking at them)... is it me, or does Mark of Subversion look like a nasty thing to do to the enemies Monk?

Necro-newb, please be gentle.

Aug 02, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Soul Reaping is horrible outside of PvE and dias maps. Have fun.

Zeru · Aug 02, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Pretty much any hex with 20-30 sec recharge is crappy because it'll get removed asap. Mark of Subversion isn't terrible due to it's shutdown function, but guilt or shame are better.

Necros do have a point...it's just horribly limited especially in gvg. In tombs there's always room for a putrid spammer and you earn tons of soul reaping energy but other than that you need a really specific build for one. Ex. BiPer or Disease spreader.

JoDiamonds · Aug 02, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Runes are very important for Necromancers, especially for Soul Reaping and Death magic (because it controls how strong the minions are).

Soul Reaping is an energy management attribute, like Energy Storage, but does function very differently.

In general, Necromancers, probably more than any class, have inevitability (especially in PvE): The longer the battle goes, the better they are doing, unlike most other classes. This is mostly true in PvE, where enemies keep dying. This both triggers Soul Reaping and adds vital bodies for use as a spell component. If you are making minions, you can become incredibly strong through continued deaths. No other class can do this. The closest anything comes is Warrior adrenaline, but it's not even close to the same thing.

As an aside: Elementalists don't actually have many ways of getting more energy, certainly not more than Necromancers. It's mostly Ether Renewal and Ether Prodigy, both Elites, and arguably on par with Blood is Power. This doesn't really compare with Soul Reaping, except in PvP (where Necromancers are pretty severely handicapped, but the Curses line is a lot more useful there). Mesmers are the ones with real energy recovery, in Inspiration. Every class has energy management techniques, of course, but only Mesmers are really into getting it back during battle, other than Soul Reaping.

rii · Aug 02, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

How much more are they doing? say level 10 sr, thats 10 energy per death, thats maybe one spell per death. that really aint much. however, es with 120 energy nukes the hell out of the mob striaght off the bat, and you move on.

Zeru · Aug 02, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Ether Renewal is like tenfold above Blood is Power. They cannot be compared really; Ether Renewal is just so absurdly good. Ether Prodigy blows but who needs that.

ComMan · Aug 02, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Reasons to be a necro primary:

If you're using the female version, you look awesome.

Soul Reaping is absurd in PvE.

Minions are absurd in PvE.

You can use Necro Runes.

You don't have to worry about that crazy PvP stuff. You're never getting on a team outside of the Random Arena, where your team will always blame you for their loss, unless there's a prot/smite monk around.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 02, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

You don't have to worry about that crazy PvP stuff. You're never getting on a team outside of the Random Arena, where your team will always blame you for their loss, unless there's a prot/smite monk around.

haha that is actually quite true... sadly... at least 75% of the party in tomb are like that. Better find a good guild, or get lucky to find the remaining 25%...

Nightsky · Aug 02, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Ether Renewal is like tenfold above Blood is Power. They cannot be compared really; Ether Renewal is just so absurdly good. Ether Prodigy blows but who needs that.

You can't use Ether Renewal in a E/N build. First of all, you would need to have a ton of Necro enchantment, which is already pretty bad in a build. Then you would need a quick spammable spell to regen your energy. In the end, it would suck. You would be 25% of a necro because of all the crap enchantment you would have to carry and the low attribute. At best, you could spam Dark Pact for 40 damage every 2 seconds...

Zeru · Aug 02, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Tell me why I would bother running Ele/Nec besides a specific team build with a few select curses or for taking rend?

Necro offers the least competitive options for a primary or secondary of any class in pvp, period. In pve it's rather the opposite; necros are as close to gods as you can go.

Aug 02, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

why cant you use Ether Renewal in an E/N build? that makes absolutely no sense...
I still wouldnt do it, but it can be done

ElderAtronach · Aug 02, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

@ Blackace: with the rise of spirit use, how does soul reaping still suck? I fail to see how that would be the case, because spirits dying triggers sr as well, and they are always going to die after their timer runs out, no matter whether fertile seasons are up or not.

@ Zeru: again, with the rise of spirits like NR, how are you going to maintain enough enchants for ER to be very effective? I agree though, ER is godly in PVE, there's no other energy regain skill quite like it. But for PVP, I'd have to say OoB > ER.

YellowMarker161 · Aug 02, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

You can use necromancer runes, enough said.

Aug 02, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Spirits dont die fast enough to make SR matter. Even when their timers run out it doesnt mean anything. Most players want to control when they get energy, SR doesn't help that at all. Thats the most basic argument for why it's horrible.

There are numerous discussions on it around the forum, I just don't feel like going deep into it for the one millionth time.

People use ER because you only need one window of oppurtunity to make refill the whole Energy bar.

Tuon · Aug 02, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Spirits dont die fast enough to make SR matter.

false