Curse

film · Aug 11, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Am i the only one that thinks 4v4's should be moved up into the gvg arena? After all ive never seen any of these problems arise in a team arena fight. Personally i think 4v4's actually rely more on individual talent then 8v8's anyway.

Mirhi · Aug 11, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I agree with the original post about putrid and Renewal being overpowered, but as for Necros being limited is not really accurate.

There is a lot of versitility with N/Me and Me/N. Please tell me recently you've seen Fragility+Virulence builds.

Also I have to disagree with BiP not being worth it.
BiP cast on a monk, then healing breeze on necro, it works very well. Even with strip enchantments you can stack Protective and Vigorous Spirit, and still BiP works very well if the other group spikes the necro.

Necros need a buff, except for Putrid. Don't even get me started on how overpowered rangers are right now.

Stuntastic · Aug 11, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by film

Am i the only one that thinks 4v4's should be moved up into the gvg arena? After all ive never seen any of these problems arise in a team arena fight. Personally i think 4v4's actually rely more on individual talent then 8v8's anyway.

You're right but 8v8's are what they are because of TEAM skill, while individual skill plays a lesser role it is still important. 4v4 battles have much less room for originality and creativity, and certainly have less room for variation which is why they should'nt be upgraded to GvG.

Aug 11, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

4v4 play, while being an easier place to watch individual skill, is a double-edged sword. Besides the inherent problems with the Arenas, you also get terrible teammates which makes even a decent player succumb to other shit builds.

Putrid is overpowered because it relies on a scarce resource that other corpse skills compete with. With Putrid being fast cast/fast recharge and Wells taking a good amount of time to cast, Putrid becomes magnitudes more powerful on a Dias map.

anti_z3r0 · Aug 11, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Putrid Explosion needs a recharge time like Michael Jackson needs a restraining order from all plastic surgeons.

Skyro · Aug 11, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Designs

Compare that to a necro. A necro putrids in tombs, anything else is just a mere bonus. The necro's job is to mash putrid, and the entire rest of the skillbar is tailored to allow for putrid use. Doesn't leave many options.

Rest of the skillbar is tailored for putrid use? I can only assume you mean because people use tainted, which I think sucks, just because they already had high death spec. So if you're saying that the flavor of the month necro sucks (other than putrid use) and you can't think of your own necro build and must copy that one then ok, I can see how you think necros aren't that great. I am so tempted just to put up my tombs necro build up here but I know my guild would kill me.

I do agree that putrid serverly limits a lot of what the necro can do because it is a corpse-denial skill but there are ways around that such as glyph of sacrifice as someone mentioned above me. If they do end up nerfing nature's renewal though I wouldn't even care if they nerf putrid, if anything renewal limits a much wider array of skills than putrid does. Tombs though really is just a mess right now, GvG is where it's at.

goldfinger · Aug 11, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33

God yeah, complain about NR before anything. Especially considering how much more useful that putrid necro would be without NR floating about.

JackOften · Aug 11, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Here's the problem with BiP/Fertile.
Hi, read the skill description? Orders last 5 seconds, 6 with 20% enchant mods.

Under nature renewal they take 4 seconds to cast. Do the math, it's not hard.

I thought vamp was 13, obviously its not. Then it would actually be reasonable use of an elite slot

Theres always the Me/N 'sidestep' as you call it, and the fact positioning doesnt matter for Orders - so while you're slow to cast, you're still rather hard to interupt.

Anyway, we were arguing here that Necro skills are useless - they're far from it. Complaining that a fair 60% of a necros skill lineup has to be adjusted to NR is like pointing out that its the same for monks : Big fat duh.

Aug 11, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

but its not the same for monks, since they arent sitting around with a line entirely composed of enchantments that need to stick to be worth it. Plus, they have a few that can dodge NR, namely Reversal of Fortune, Guardian and once in a while Aegis.

Stuntastic · Aug 11, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Putrid needs an alteration to give some potentially tombs changing well usage a chance and NR needs to be revamped. Although I do maintain that NR should be the only spirit changed. The fact that spirits are able to body block is also a broken rule.

JackOften · Aug 11, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

but its not the same for monks, since they arent sitting around with a line entirely composed of enchantments that need to stick to be worth it. Plus, they have a few that can dodge NR, namely Reversal of Fortune, Guardian and once in a while Aegis.

No, its not any different - the healing monk build is just insanely popular, compared to even the low-hex necro. But a Gaurdian or RoF having to say up for only 2-5 seconds is the same as a Rigor Mortis only having to say up long enough to gank the target. And both work best if aided by FC to counter the NR cast malus.

Theres only a select few skills (mainly the Degen hexes) that are actually worthless if they don't outlast 5 seconds. Thats probably milder than the monks problem as far as a fair chunk of the DivFavor, Prot and Smiting skills go. Heck, Necros (and mesmers to an extent, although not on an AoE) even get Hexes to make removal via anything except NR a pain.

icecomet · Aug 11, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

you could always kill the necro first.. its not that hard.

Mesmerized · Aug 11, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

mes or necs should get a skill to one-click destroy a spirit

say, 10e/2sec/30 recycle

maybe a nec.. "Banish Spirit"

BurningPants · Aug 11, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

I would agree to with the OP that a skilled necro with putrid is pretty useful in tombs. I do not agree with some people saying it should be nerfed or anything, it will phase it self out as people realize other things a necro can do.

Usually I recommend to my team that we should try to keep the necro on its toes when it comes to HP. I ask them to target a monk first, then switch over to the necro before that monk dies. Hopefully, a good portion of energy is wasted on healing/protecting the first monk that keeping the necro alive will be slightly harder for them.

White Designs · Aug 11, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Fragility + Virulence is a Arena build. In tombs one hex removal and the character becomes useless.

But even more importantly is that Fragility and Virulence work best with high illusion and low Death Magic, that means it is NOT compatibile with Putrid. And if it isn't, well, you have to take another Necro to compensate.

To whoever said that his or her team holds hall regularly without Putrid, I am either very impressed or very skeptical. I don't think its doable...maybe if more people indicated it was I would rethink that, but that hasn't happened.

And to anyone giving me 'advice' about how to stop enemy Necros, that's not the point of this at all. I am quite aware of how to play in an environment assuming Putrid on both sides. The point is I don't want to have to take a character just for one skill. Not even NR is as bad in this area, since NR can be stuck onto any character, whereas Putrid requires a primary necro.

OneArmedScissor · Aug 11, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

So I guess Learning how To actually use other skills effectively is just a foolish idea. And the concept of laying down a nerf or a buff to make it easier on you in the current state of strategy is some how more of an appealing concept.

right.

/not signed

I'm tired of nerfing skills.

agreed...........

Scaphism · Aug 11, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

So I guess Learning how To actually use other skills effectively is just a foolish idea. And the concept of laying down a nerf or a buff to make it easier on you in the current state of strategy is some how more of an appealing concept.

right.

/not signed

I'm tired of nerfing skills.

What skills have you nerfed? None.
Can you name which skills have been changed since release? Maybe I could take your blase attitude seriously if you demonstrated an understanding of the changes the game has gone through.

Still waiting.
Still waiting for an explanation of the skill involved in Putrid Wars as well.

Aug 11, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

JackOften looks at the cast times and durations on Rof and Guardian and tell me if anyone spamming these is going to care about NR. Especially since Fast Casting barely effects both of those spells.

Necro hexes that need to last are more than just degends. This includes Barbs, Spiteful Spirit, Soul Barbs, and Weaken Armor just to name a few. All are effected by NR badly and as they were barely playable before they just become worthless.

film · Aug 11, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaphism

What skills have you nerfed? None.
Can you name which skills have been changed since release? Maybe I could take your blase attitude seriously if you demonstrated an understanding of the changes the game has gone through.

Still waiting.
Still waiting for an explanation of the skill involved in Putrid Wars as well.

forget about grenths balance already?

Phades · Aug 11, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by film

forget about grenths balance already?

People complaining about NR predates anyone really mentioning GvG gank play using that particular skill. Even so, are you trying to argue that grenth's balance was fine as it was?