Curse

Ristaron · Sep 06, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Talk is cheap. Prove it.

-Some anonymous quote telling you to get off your ass, go into Tombs, and kick those smiter asses like you say you can -- bloody bureaucrat!

And for God's sakes, stop talking about nerfing monks until they become your little healing-pet like you want them to. Ever played a monk? It will give you gray hairs to endure what bullshit ignorant assholes put you through.
Idiot: "Monk heal me!"
Monk: "I am, you just have STARTER ARMOUR and so you DIE in THREE HITS!"
Idiot: "OMG rez me stoopid monk! U sukc!"
Monk: "I can't res you, I'm busy healing the people in the party who are pulling their weight."
Idiot: "OMGWTF RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING MONK RES ME!"
Random team member: "Dude res the idiot! Christ, you suck!"

Nexx · Sep 06, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

I'm wondering where you are, super-players, when smiting teams hold the Hall 15 times in a row only to be beaten by another smiting team. I think you should play a little bit more, and "easily counter" smite builds more often. And why is that you never share your "counter-build"? I know, I know, you've got to keep it secret, or else everyone would be using it! Hell, it's so secret that no one's running it in Tombs, you're doing a damn good work!

/sarcasm off

Lol. =] Brilliant. Reminded me of my PUG smite team in arena and winning like 20 in a row or something and losing only to another smite team. I know, team arena is different than tomb but these "direct" counter builds are harder to pull off than one thinks (or perhaps i just suck... yeah, I think that's that the case) but whatever... as long as I'm winning.

cookiehoarder · Sep 06, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Quarter

Balanced or not, smiting ruins the competition simply because it's so boring. It's boring to play, and it's boring when it's all you ever run up against.

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but last Saturday, when the PvPX weekend had just started, Tombs was interesting and exciting and flat-out awesome because it was packed with a billion different teams who were all trying different ideas and strategies. Now that The One True Smiter has been perfected, build analysis has basically been reduced to counting the E/Mos.

Having that quality of competition would be an enormous benefit to everyone, but in order for that to happen, the E/Mo smiter is probably going to have to be smacked around a bit with the nerf bat. (accomplishing this is certainly a delicate matter, but that is a discussion all its own)

If you count more then one e/mo then you should be laughing. It doesn't need to be nerfed what so ever. All you need to is click the rend enchant/diversion button. Not that hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

I'm wondering where you are, super-players, when smiting teams hold the Hall 15 times in a row only to be beaten by another smiting team. I think you should play a little bit more, and "easily counter" smite builds more often. And why is that you never share your "counter-build"? I know, I know, you've got to keep it secret, or else everyone would be using it! Hell, it's so secret that no one's running it in Tombs, you're doing a damn good work!

/sarcasm off

Enlighten me, when has a fotm smite team ever held the halls more then 10 times.

^ No sarcasm or rudeness, I just don't know the answer!

Mormegil · Sep 06, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

If you count more then one e/mo then you should be laughing. It doesn't need to be nerfed what so ever. All you need to is click the rend enchant/diversion button. Not that hard.

OMG!!!!! EUREKA!!!! How can you be so brilliant? Let's pretend Mr. John is versus Mr. Smith.

Mr. John: hi, I'm currently running a smiting build and I pwonz!

Mr. Smith: hi, I'm currently running an anti-smiting build and I pwonz even more than you!

J: ok guys, I see Smith has a mesmer and a necro. Let's take care of those two chars, so that they won't bother our e/mo's while we're smiting the holy crap out of them thanks to the broken Ether Renewal.

S: hey guys, I read on GWGuru that smiting buildz are for noobz, let's own them with diversion/rend enchant. It's just the current trend, no big deal.

End of the battle

S: awwww guys, why were they always going on our necro and on the mez? It's like they knew it, for some reason I can't imagine! Those smite builds are waaaay too overpowered, I won't pvp anymore unless they nerf them!

J: 1 minute and 45 seconds? It took us too long! 1 minute to get rid of the necro and the mez is a whole lot of time, not to mention the 45 secs to smite the hell out of them after that! Let's tweak our build a bit guys, I know we can squeeze some more damage from it!

Don't take it personally sir, I just wanted to find a funny way to show that you're completely wrong. "Smite builds are easily countered" is one of the sentences that should never be written, like "Britney Spears has a brain" or "North Korea is in love with democracy". It's not like we have different opinions, what I'm stating has been demonstrated dozens of times before me, by people more experienced and more competent than me and you.

For the last time, please stop spreading misinformation just for the sake of it.

Third Quarter · Sep 06, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

If you count more then one e/mo then you should be laughing. It doesn't need to be nerfed what so ever. All you need to is click the rend enchant/diversion button. Not that hard.

This may come as a shock, but it is completely irrelevant.

However balanced or unbalanced it may be, smite has almost completely obliterated the metagame: 90% of the groups in tombs are running smite. If that wasn't bad enough, it's seeing quite a lot of use in gvg as well. Random and Team arena? You bet. Ascalon Arena? Probably.

Diversity and creativity play a pivotal part in Guild Wars's long-term appeal, but all of that has been completely buried under hundreds of carbon copies of the exact same build.

The imminent death of the Guild Wars metagame is a direct consequence of smite being imbalanced, and it is for the metagame that smite must be brought under control.

Xero Silvam · Sep 07, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Quarter

However balanced or unbalanced it may be, smite has almost completely obliterated the metagame: 90% of the groups in tombs are running smite. If that wasn't bad enough, it's seeing quite a lot of use in gvg as well. Random and Team arena? You bet. Ascalon Arena? Probably.

And 100% of you run healing monk(s)
And 90% of you use Axe/hammer Warriors
And 90% of you use pure Nukers.
And 100% of you would be better off with an Mesmer or Necro to kick a) the arse of the warrior with empathy. b) kill the nukers withs dots. c) and annihalate the healing monks with backfire.

Metagame: Cooky Cutter Build -> Counter Build -> Counter Counter Build -> You get the point.

FrogDevourer · Sep 07, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Smiting is not the core the problem (although the damage output of ZF is too mobile & too heavy). For those who missed the relevant issue, here is the thread you're looking for:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=56068

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero Silvam

And 100% of you run healing monk(s)
And 90% of you use Axe/hammer Warriors
And 90% of you use pure Nukers.
And 100% of you would be better off with an Mesmer or Necro to kick a) the arse of the warrior with empathy. b) kill the nukers withs dots. c) and annihalate the healing monks with backfire.

Metagame: Cooky Cutter Build -> Counter Build -> Counter Counter Build -> You get the point.

I'm sure you can enlighten us with your smiter counter.

Oh, and for the record, I shrug off backfire as a monk, empathy is worthless against opponents with half a brain, and DoT is neither deadly nor more powerful on nukers (as a matter for facts, it's more efficient against heavily armored opponents).

cookiehoarder · Sep 07, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

OMG!!!!! EUREKA!!!! How can you be so brilliant? Let's pretend Mr. John is versus Mr. Smith.

Mr. John: hi, I'm currently running a smiting build and I pwonz!

Mr. Smith: hi, I'm currently running an anti-smiting build and I pwonz even more than you!

J: ok guys, I see Smith has a mesmer and a necro. Let's take care of those two chars, so that they won't bother our e/mo's while we're smiting the holy crap out of them thanks to the broken Ether Renewal.

S: hey guys, I read on GWGuru that smiting buildz are for noobz, let's own them with diversion/rend enchant. It's just the current trend, no big deal.

End of the battle

S: awwww guys, why were they always going on our necro and on the mez? It's like they knew it, for some reason I can't imagine! Those smite builds are waaaay too overpowered, I won't pvp anymore unless they nerf them!

J: 1 minute and 45 seconds? It took us too long! 1 minute to get rid of the necro and the mez is a whole lot of time, not to mention the 45 secs to smite the hell out of them after that! Let's tweak our build a bit guys, I know we can squeeze some more damage from it!

Don't take it personally sir, I just wanted to find a funny way to show that you're completely wrong. "Smite builds are easily countered" is one of the sentences that should never be written, like "Britney Spears has a brain" or "North Korea is in love with democracy". It's not like we have different opinions, what I'm stating has been demonstrated dozens of times before me, by people more experienced and more competent than me and you.

For the last time, please stop spreading misinformation just for the sake of it.

How am I presenting missleading information? Rend enchants stops most of the damage from a smiter till he puts up his enchantments agian. Diversion stops damage flat out.

SMITING IS EASILY COUNTERED. It has good damage, it's a good addition to teams, but if you can't counter smite....

Also, if you can't keep your Mesmer or necros up then...Same thing above, I'm speechless.

Xero Silvam · Sep 07, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Counter Smite Vs. Ele/Mo
kinda easy, they use a spam spell egh? i'd Counter that with Spirit shackles from the Mesmer with backfire. every time they use a spammer, they get -health and -energy. For Ether Renewal, andf all other enchantements I'd use an Strip Enchantements/any other massive enchant removal Skill..
Hopes this kidna demostrates the weaknesses of he Smitebuild.

Sammiel · Sep 07, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

All it demonstrates is that you don't understand the build. Spirit Shackles only drains energy on an attack. So it would do nothing against a E/Mo. Backfire can often be cast through or removed. Strip enchantments will simply remove their cover enchant. Diversion can either be removed, or the smiter can simply sacrifice a non-essential skill to it and continue casting. Repeated diversioning would likely put a dent in the smiting, but it wouldn't disable it. Energy denial doesn't work, since ER is such a fantastic energy engine. That leaves enchantment stripping, which is generally inadequate to combat ER on multiple smiters. Sure a necro may be able to keep one pinned down decently, but what about the other 1-2 left on the team, who will still be wreaking havoc. And even then all the necro is doing is slowing the energy engine, the E/Mo can still drop Balths.

Ensign · Sep 07, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I don't have any issues with Balthazar's Aura. It's a strong skill to be sure, mostly because of the cast time and recharge, but the energy cost is perfectly in line for the effect and that serves to balance out the whole.

Sure, it puts just about every Elementalist nuke to shame, but Elementalist nukes are all grossly overcosted - because you have Energy Storage to make up for it, right? right?

right?

smurfhunter · Sep 07, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

something i dont like about your reasoning ensign is that you said its energy cost is 'in line' with the effect. ummm, no. its not. meteor shower costs 25 energy, and that causes exhaustion, takes like 2 years to cast, damage is affected by armor, and cant move with somoene.

in fact BA is actually better in every way (than other nukes). i mean which other nuke can follow someone around? which other takes 1 second to cast? which doesnt cause exhaustion? which isnt affected by armor?

...

i think the problem with BA is it is turning eles - which were supposed to be high damage characters - into just shells for the extra energy. while they use smites for actual damage.

and to someone that said it doesnt hurt.. um... BA is 22 damage a second. 220 damage if you get chased by someone with it. add on zealots damage (37 damage about once every 2 seconds to be nice) and you have some serious damage.

actually with everyone boasting about their counters to a pure smite group, a guild last night absolutely owned everyone with a smite build. a pure smite build. just goes to show, 99% of the people running smites were amatures so its no wonder they got 'countered'.

btw isnt my use of bold there just totaly breathtaking?

Sammiel · Sep 07, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

something i dont like about your reasoning ensign is that you said its energy cost is 'in line' with the effect. ummm, no. its not. meteor shower costs 25 energy, and that causes exhaustion, takes like 2 years to cast, damage is affected by armor, and cant move with somoene.

in fact BA is actually better in every way (than other nukes). i mean which other nuke can follow someone around? which other takes 1 second to cast? which doesnt cause exhaustion? which isnt affected by armor?

...

i think the problem with BA is it is turning eles - which were supposed to be high damage characters - into just shells for the extra energy. while they use smites for actual damage.

and to someone that said it doesnt hurt.. um... BA is 22 damage a second. 220 damage if you get chased by someone with it. add on zealots damage (37 damage about once every 2 seconds to be nice) and you have some serious damage.

actually with everyone boasting about their counters to a pure smite group, a guild last night absolutely owned everyone with a smite build. a pure smite build. just goes to show, 99% of the people running smites were amatures so its no wonder they got 'countered'.

btw isnt my use of bold there just totaly breathtaking?

He has also said many times that ele spells are craptastic, and he is pretty much right. Just because ele spells mostly suck, doesn't mean BA is out of line. The problem isn't really BA IMO, its the interaction between ER, BA, ZF, and the spammable monk skills.

smurfhunter · Sep 07, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammiel

He has also said many times that ele spells are craptastic, and he is pretty much right. Just because ele spells mostly suck, doesn't mean BA is out of line. The problem isn't really BA IMO, its the interaction between ER, BA, ZF, and the spammable monk skills.

yes but BA has essentially gotten rid of all other ele types (for damage that is), and i have seen some eles that didnt use smite and they were substandard compared to smiting.

so to quote ensign loosely, when something about hedges and options happens, its bad.

the drizzle · Sep 07, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

maybe the ele nukes should just be improved. Fireball was improved as well as some other skills, why dont they just do that some more?

timmo567 · Sep 08, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Because 3 Eles using fireball can't kill a whole team in seconds

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 08, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

After reading on the other threads and the new upcoming FotM...

Smite no longer needs a nerf. Pets own it...