Curse

CAT · Sep 07, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I've always liked edge of extinction, I try to fit it into all builds that i design. I've fought a couple of "edge bomb teams"(or so they are called) in underworld, which get horribly raped by my team every time. Well heres what I was thinking.

7x Necro/Mesmers
Atrributes:
16 Death (12 + 1 + 3)
8 Illusion (not sure of number, just guess)
13 Curses (10 + 3)
Note--- Also all sup runes(not vigor) that can be equipped

Needed Skills:
Death Nova
Illusion of Weakness
Chiblians
Res Signet
Deathly Swarm

1x Ranger/Monk
Attributes:
16 Beast Mastery (12 + 1 + 3)
12 Protection Prayers

Needed Skills:
Edge of Extinction
Frozen Soil
Mark of Protection(only edge counter i could think of)
Res Signet
Light of Dwanya

Strategy: Each necro death novas himself(or if its other ally the number below him) right before running in. Then all of the necros use chiblians to do a small aoe damage+removing enchantments then use illusion of weakness, killing themself doing the 50 edge damage+100 or something death nova damage for each one of them, then the 50 edge damage for each opponent. While the ranger just sits back, then when they die, can light of dwanya part of the team to go kill a priest or a ghost if needed, using a deathly swarm spike.

Genious IMO

Comments?

Arathorn5000 · Sep 07, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Sounds like a lot of fun, though I've never run an edge bomb group so I don't really know what usually keeps them from actually winning

primitiveworker · Sep 07, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

No one loses to the build twice.

CAT · Sep 07, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by primitiveworker

No one loses to the build twice.

could you explain to me the counter to this build please? besides insanely well placed healing enchantments.

primitiveworker · Sep 07, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

After having seen this build once, the first thing anyone will do after noticing a nearly all-Necro team is look for the R/* or */R casting Edge of Extinction, or for the Spirit of Extinction if it's already down. No Spirit of Extinction, GG squishy Necros.

Divine Elemental · Sep 07, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by primitiveworker

After having seen this build once, the first thing anyone will do after noticing a nearly all-Necro team is look for the R/* or */R casting Edge of Extinction, or for the Spirit of Extinction if it's already down. No Spirit of Extinction, GG squishy Necros.

I Agree
and edge bomb teams really suck nowadays no offense Peps

CAT · Sep 07, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

After having seen this build once, the first thing anyone will do after noticing a nearly all-Necro team is look for the R/* or */R casting Edge of Extinction, or for the Spirit of Extinction if it's already down. No Spirit of Extinction, GG squishy Necros.

I'm defending my build~!
First off(not a flame at all, just trying to understand). Your post doesnt make any sense. You see the spirit of extinction, then if i dont have it my necros get squished? If you see the spirit of extinction, then my necros are already death nova'd and charging at you. The ranger will probably have healing seed(or some prot prayer) on the extinction to withstand a small attack, long enough for the necros to cast 2 spells. The necros dont wait to be killed, the necros kill themselves with one illusion of weakness. If pulled off correctly, the other team will either

A. Be completely dead within 5-10 seconds of extinction being layed
B. Have 1-2 people alive due to a well placed enchantment. If your whole team blew up your LAST instinct would be to lay frozen soil. The ranger runs and light of dwanyas the few necros. If the other team manages to res fast, the necros can pull another edge bomb. If theres only 1-2 people left, you can deathly swarm them to death while edge hits them with 50 dmg each time one of them drops.

Arathorn5000 · Sep 07, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Hmm, wait. Won't 7 of your people dying only do ~350 damage to everyone since EoE does like ~50 damage per death?

CAT · Sep 08, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Death Nova, + chiblians. chiblians is a little AoE damage as well as the deaht novas +100 when death. What will happen is, 7 of your guys will die, doing 350 damage. The death nova is bound to hit atleast a couple targets, doing 450 damage. Then chiblians doing a little over that if its hits only one target. Then with one guy on their team dieing, it does another 50 to them, which will drop another guy, and it will chain them to death.

sure granted, a couple guys on their team will only be hit by the primary 350, but im sure with 7 death novas when everyone is at 150(total absolute max, not using runes and not getting hit by chib) atleast one person is gonna get hit by 2 (dropping them below 0), which adds 50 edge damage. Witch in turn will kill all of the people on their team that got hit by 1 death nova. IF atleast 3 people die in that period of time, the 500 damage will be enough to chain a team even if they got a couple heals off. If one target got a huge heal or a seed that kept him alive, the ranger can light of dwanya(maybe she will have a stance that stops from inturrupt) then frozen. max ppl that will be up is 3, which will be deathly swarmed and maybe edge bombed again if needed.

arredondo · Sep 08, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

The build can work to some extent. I read a thread somewhere on the net with pretty much the same setup taking out a few teams very quickly. Light of Dwayna, the Ranger Spirits, Death Nova suicide run, etc. According to a couple of people, this has been about since the beta days. My guild mate mentioned last week that we should try it out for kicks. Sounds pretty cool.

carnivore · Sep 08, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

i ran into this kind of build once in tombs, it wasnt threatning at all. it was just a bunch of necros, ran in and suicided(with EoE down) and dieing, after they died 1 would come in and use light of dwarnya and have all of them up again. the plan was easy to spot soon enough, though my team still didnt take it seriously, all we did was pound away and kill them one after another, letting our monks heal.

Entropius · Sep 08, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I do a slightly different variant of this.

5x fire eles, tweaked for max damage output
2x N/Mo's with death nova, putrid, mark of protection
1x R/E with oath shot, eoe, glyph of sacrifice, meteor shower, energising wind

Basically, the fire eles do enough damage that the enemy is forced to deal with them *now*, or they will overwhelm monks quickly. The Ranger opens up by going EW -> EOE -> Glyph -> Meteor Shower -> Oath Shot -> Glyph -> Meteor Shower, and then has EOE recharged again. Just go run away if they look like they're killing it, and put up another one.

Yes, they can chase you and try to kill it, but once you get good at predicting the behavior of the thing you can arrange for it to be cast as the bomb is going off.

We beat the 15th ranked guild using this: they saw the EoE and the cluster of E's and tried to hang back, but hesitated for too long and got slaughtered by the fire eles.

Como Fort · Sep 08, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Hmm, this definitely wouldn't kill us in the tombs, I assure you. What happens if the whole team is spread out, which they will be because its easiest tactic to spot? This makes your Death Nova fairly useless. Therefore no one would die making the Edge useless except for us to bring your team down quicker.

Also it seems like a team made out of tin. I doubt you would get exceptionally far because its easy to spot and Spirit Spam just isn't effective. The first target for any decent team would be the Spirit of Extinction.

The last flaw in your 'genius' plan, is that one energy drain from a mesmer and your ranger is unable to use Light of Dwayna. Seeming as though the Ranger is the last one standing it will get everything piled on it from the other team. A tin Ranger won't last 5 seconds, trust me.

smurfhunter · Sep 08, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

someone once spilled half of his bomb team to me because he thought i was someone else

but from what little i heard its done with e/n using BiP, with a r/mo as the only one not getting bombed out.

and i think i even played his team once, what messed him up was a preemitive healing seed, everyones hp went boom except that one seeded guy who managed to stay relatively high. but then when i talked to him later he said he messed up

w/e idk really.

he seemed really insistant on BiP as the elite tho

and fyi he won the hall once with it.

CAT · Sep 08, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

i ran into this kind of build once in tombs, it wasnt threatning at all. it was just a bunch of necros, ran in and suicided(with EoE down) and dieing, after they died 1 would come in and use light of dwarnya and have all of them up again. the plan was easy to spot soon enough, though my team still didnt take it seriously, all we did was pound away and kill them one after another, letting our monks heal.

Ok, so the necros ran in. First stripped all of your encantments with chiblians and did aboiut 200 damage to your team spread around, then did a 350 damage to your entire team edge bomb, and doing an extra 100 to every person that was near the suicider. Then the ranger ran in and light of dwanya'd then layed frozen. You had three team members up and since you knew the ranger was spirit spamming, she just instantly dropped dead even with a 12 prot MoP. Also, while all 7 of the necro suicided doing 450 damage to each nearby foe in a matter of a second, your monks quickly healed the 450++ damage on each of your team members.

Quote:

Hmm, this definitely wouldn't kill us in the tombs, I assure you. What happens if the whole team is spread out, which they will be because its easiest tactic to spot? This makes your Death Nova fairly useless. Therefore no one would die making the Edge useless except for us to bring your team down quicker.

Also it seems like a team made out of tin. I doubt you would get exceptionally far because its easy to spot and Spirit Spam just isn't effective. The first target for any decent team would be the Spirit of Extinction.

The last flaw in your 'genius' plan, is that one energy drain from a mesmer and your ranger is unable to use Light of Dwayna. Seeming as though the Ranger is the last one standing it will get everything piled on it from the other team. A tin Ranger won't last 5 seconds, trust me.

Ok, your whole team spreads out so amazingly far that seven death novas couldnt even hit 2 of your people. Then the necros started deathly swarming you, while you stood all spread out around the map and the 87 damage swarms coming from 7 different necros were rendered useless because edge wasnt helping. Also, after having 7 of your team members drop, luckily your most armored person(the mesmer) was still alive, instinctively casting energy drain on the first ranger he could see, so niether of you could res. Even though the ranger was invincable to the mesmer with MoP and some somewhat damaging spells, the mesmer still somehow defeated the ranger!

//\\//\\oo · Sep 08, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

No offense, cat, but the one character that would survive the EoE would be the Ranger: As another poster had mentioned, a ranger's mana pool is severely limited: A drain mesmer that would disable the ranger (with energy drain, which DRAINs mana and does not deal any damage (so that it would not be effected by MoP!!)) would have already disabled the entire team (not to mention the huge casting time for light which is easily interruptable).

Another flaw I see in your build is the fact that it relies on a very huge player density: Although the EoE is practically global, the radius of death nova is relatively small (so that wards like ward against foes or ice AOEs might preclude ANY nova damage..)

Or consider this case: What if the other team has spammed fertile season (290 extra life with 12 points)?

Then your necros might not be able to kill themselves immediately and would be picked off one by one by the other team (while the monks are healing them). The only thing that can remove fertile season is the death of the spirit (so that chiblains is worthless in this case).

And well.. in the case of a scattered team...chiblains (< 50 dmg) + 350 dmg <= 400 dmg.. which isn't enough to kill most players.

CAT · Sep 08, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Like i said before...

Quote:

Also, after having 7 of your team members drop, luckily your most armored person(the mesmer) was still alive, instinctively casting energy drain on the first ranger he could see

I admit fertile season would work, but I havnt seen fertile since pvp weekend.

With a scattered team, you can focus death novas+chibs+deathly swarms on only a couple players, if you drop them then thats 450 damage, which im sure will drop atleast one other which is 500, which is boom.

//\\//\\oo · Sep 08, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Still, you have the casting interval from chiblains/death nova to illusion of weakness...

The ranges of deathly swarm and chiblains are very short, so assuming that you only hit two characters... the marginal 100 dmg (from the characters you killed) + 350 dmg still might not kill everybody else and that's assuming that EVERYBODY on your team is able to cast IoW at the same time;

spells like guilt, interrupting rangers, interrupting mesmers, cry of frustration etc. can spread your 350 dmg out into a harmless interval, so that they can heal themselves, resurrect the dead (85% * 480 = 408 > 350) and even kill you before you even manage to execute your full 350...

Since your health will be < 189 (since I realize that at 10 illusion IoW only subtracts 189 health) , a coordinated chain lightning could wipe you out (in which case you have one ranger with a spell that is easily interrupted to rely on.. which could easily be disabled regardless of the 130 health of the other team).. or even worse:

Since you are assuming that you will suffer 50 dmg for each death, only 4 people on your team can execute this consecutively: The remaining three will die before they even get the chance to cast it.. (or am I not understanding the server queue correctly?)

I am not saying that it's a bad build.. just a little too conditional.

Arathorn5000 · Sep 09, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Also, after having 7 of your team members drop, luckily your most armored person(the mesmer) was still alive, instinctively casting energy drain on the first ranger he could see

lmao

Divine Elemental · Sep 09, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

i saw LoT legioneres of tyria guild runing this lol
they slaughtered my ever lovably pug