Curse

knives · Sep 22, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Lol, don't listen to this guy. Monking does involve condition removal, mend condition can heal for alot, as well as mend ailment (preffered). Umm yeah..that spiteful spirit will just fuel your kiss alright...

Easiest way to heal:

Mo/me

Heal: 12 + 1/2/3
Div: 8 + 1
Inspiration: 10

Inspired Hex
Energy Drain
Dwaynas Kiss
Orison
Touch
Healing Seed
Rebirth/Restore Life/Ressurect
Drain Enchant/Other skill

You will hardly run out of energy, because once you reach 0 you drain a monster, and regain like 16 for the cost of 5 energy. Inspired hex hsa a net gain of 6, drian ench 6 as well, but why I don't prefer it in pve is because monsters rarely ever use enchants. You could take breeze there or put in points for prot for mend condition/ailment if you want to take out a few points from inspiration. Sig of devotion is a 2 sec cast time, I'd rather just drain an opponent in 1 seconds and continue to heal. (PVE purposes only for this build, but can easily be used for PvP, just take out rebirth etc for sig of devotion/heal other/ divine spirit)

KuTeBaka · Sep 22, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

so you have no way to remove a backfire that someone might put on you?

edit: refering to original post.

Aetherfox · Sep 22, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

i thought this was a joke post at first...

firstly : monk's rarely carry a rez. for the reason that if someone died it means your monks healing could not keep up with the enemy damage output. the first person that died will usually be another monk. it means your healing output is already reduced, and YOU WANT TO TAKE AN 8 SECOND BREAK FROM HEALING... not a good idea.

secondly : healing breeze is not a healing spell. repeat. a target coming under heavy fire will be the focus of enemy enchantment strips and shatters. against a competent team the moment you slap on healing breeze it will get stripped or shattered for more damage and you just wasted 10 mana. there are more dangerous enchantments that need to be stripped than healing breeze anyway, which sort of ensures that when you do cast breeze it will be removed. even if it is not removed, breeze healing is too slow. casting word + orison can net you a roughly 320 heal for 10 mana within 3 seconds as opposed to maybe 210 heal in 10 seconds for healing breeze.

third : condition removal is crucial to have on your team. you could only justify it if another monk brought condition removal himself. conditions don't kill a person? you obviously haven't seen a monk getting crippled and beaten to death by warriors. you haven't seen an entire team die just because a monk got hit by concussion shot and hence could not heal anyone else for 20 seconds since he was being fired on by a ranger with tigers fury. a ranger with melandru's arrows and apply poison will cause -7 degen for an extended period of time per target if he manages to get one shot off -> 14DPS for 20 seconds is 280 damage...

fourth : where is aegis???

fifth : hex removal and enchantment removal is completely missing from this build. so you think that hexes like lingering curse or life transfer or fragility aren't worth removing because you can "heal" the damage they cause since they don't "kill"? i suggest you go to random arena and receive a 500 damage spike from a fragility build and tell me hexes don't kill... and that your orison and healing breeze is more efficient than using a 5 mana smite hex or even a -5 mana inspire hex (yes you can gain mana removing hexes) in preventing hundreds of damage to a target. and without removing lingering curse your healing is going to do next to nothing... yes i laugh at your half strength orison =p

And For The Biggest Flaw -->

peace and harmony is just meh... i would rather take a better elite. most of the time monks are limited in their healing not because they have no mana, but because they are being focused and killed. =p if a monk gets the focus of attacks (which is always) then the first priority of the enemy team will be to remove all your protective enchantments, which automatically removed peace and harmony as well.

the question is how long do you expect to survive in a fight in pvp without getting the attention of the enemy team? lets assume you have a 60 second duration on peace and harmony. that's a total net gain of +15 mana over 60 seconds... (20-5).

do you expect to keep that enchantment up for 60 seconds when monks are among the first targets in a fight? assuming that the enemy team is completely idiotic... and leaves you alone... you gain 15 more mana over 60 seconds, wohoo 1 breeze and 1 more orison.

if you absolutely, completely, must have more mana, just spec in something like energy drain. if i was fighting againt you as a monk i would take energy drain elite.. even at only rank 7 energy drain i can drain you 3 times in 60 seconds, for 14 mana each time. you would lose 42 mana over 60 seconds, and i would gain 27 mana.

over 60 seconds gaining 27 mana and forcing the enemy to lose 42 mana is far far better than "maybe" getting 15 mana if your peace and harmony isn't shattered. far better as in, holy crap wtf bbq better.

and here's an even bigger kicker : energy drain is not my first pick of elite either, since there are other ways of managing your energy and more useful monk healing elites that you can bring for your team. more than anything else that shows just how bad a skill peace and harmony is.

Rico Carridan · Sep 22, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I think you'd be better off with mend ailment or mend condition rather than, for instance Dwanya's kiss. Why? Well, with a couple points in protection prayers, mend ailment will heal ~40 points per remaining condition + divine bonus + divine boon bonus + clear one bad condition all for 5 energy. If you have a condition heavy opposition, that could be 200+ points of healing. Even if it is just poison you're negating, that's ~80 points of DoT negated, plus about 60 healed through your bonuses, a 140 spread. In other words, if that person is down more than 60 health anyway and gets poisoned, you're going to have to heal them anyway to get back those 140 points of health. This way, you do it sooner, and don't have to worry about someone slowly dying. Incidentally, this is MUCH more effective than throwing a healing breeze on them to counter the poison, which costs twice as much as does not heal as much. Frankly, even with 1 point of protection prayers (from a minor rune) I still include mend ailment in my builds.

I've experimented with removing hexes, but haven't been overly impressed. Such it is handy, especially if you get backfire or scourge healing on yourself, but the spells usually have long casting times and high energy costs, so I normally leave them for someone else. For PvP, particularly arena play, I like vengeance for if a player dies--I've only used rebirth a few times in PvE and found it only useful if you're party is already @#$%ed and the bodies are trapped under a mob. For GvG, I'd say probably go with restore life.

As for Offering of Blood, well, given the choice between 2-3 extra points in healing prayers or divine favour or practically unlimited energy, I know where my money is going. In any event, if I take a few points in blood magic (not death), I can bring along some other spells to use against the warrior that's always pounding on me (for that matter, I like to drop about 8 points into curses and grab enfeeble, that way, I can use 5 energy every 10-12 seconds and basically don't need to ever worry about healing myself when being attacked by a single warrior).

One and Two · Sep 22, 2005, 05:40 AM // 05:40

LMAO. Nice title...~

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 22, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Peace and Harmony, lmfao. Well, atleast I know not to take you seriously now.

Edit: I just saw rebirth as well. Now I really, really know not to take you seriously.

It's obvious that hes talking about PvE: rebirth isn't that bad in PvE, alot more valuable than a Res Signet, and to an extreme in FoW/UW.

OneArmedScissor · Sep 22, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

This guy can't be serious...

HEALING BREEZE FTW!!!

dansamy · Sep 22, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

I have played with the character Dawn Musick before in Hell's Precipice. Both times she joined my group, she quit halfway when people started dying. My advice? Don't take hers.

octaviancmb · Sep 22, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

I'd say this is obviously a PvE build. I give it props for being a reasonable PvE build. Any Monk/whatever can copy it; no need to go outside a primary Monk profession for any skills. Healing Breeze and Peace and Harmony aren't that bad in PvE, and conditions are mostly easy to ignore. Rebirth is practically required. I'm quite surprised Healing Seed isn't there... My Monk will take it over practically any other spell when he's healing. But, all in all, I think this build will help those Monks who don't have a clue at all as to what they're doing.

In PvP...well... I'd LOVE for this Monk build to be on the other team. They'd just get owned. So, please, oh Monks without a clue, do *not* copy this build for PvP. It's bad for that. Use it for PvE only, and only until you figure out a build that works better.

cmb

Patrograd · Sep 22, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Condition and hex removal are certainly essential in a team, but are surely in the domain of the prot monk rather than the healer, unless we are talking arenas here (sorry, I tend to think of everything in tombs terms).

In tombs I bring 8 healing spells, up to my prot to remove hexes and conditions, after all, he has the points in protection, I dont.

Energy management is more about skill selection and more importantly having the ability to use them correctly than it is about mesmer or necro secondary skills, although I know plenty of people disagree.

PVE is different, although for high end PVE (Fire Isles, FoW etc) you need pretty much a tombs set up anyway, only bring rebirth instead of one of your heal spells, and arenas different again becasue you will need some points in prot and some prot skills. But for tombs and GvG I'd be pure 100% healing, and wouldnt touch healing breeze with a long stick, and neither would I touch any form of permanent enchantment on either a healer or a prot. Any competent team will have a raft of enchant removal skills available to them and will just love it if they come across a boon healer or a bonds protector as they'll have that team on the floor in the seconds.

Freyas · Sep 22, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Blessings

1. Healing Breeze
2. Healing Touch
3. Orision of Healing
4. Dwana's Kiss
5. Signet of Devotion
6. Peace and Harmony
7. Divine Boon
8. Rebirth

How this Build works:

Use healing breeze to passive heal anyone taking heavy damage while you constantly machine gun orision of healing and dwana's kiss spells. Use Healing touch to heal yourself in dire times. Use signet of devotion to cure scratchs whe you do not want to use mana, and also use it when you have 1 or 2 mana left and need to heal someone, by the time you do, your mana will be at 5 or 6 again, enough to use orision or dwana. Use Divine boon first and then peace and harmony or you will cancel PH out. The extra mana regeneration cancels divine boon which makes you a high healing effective machine. Of course, rebirth needs no explanation, if you want, bring restore life in its place.

This is a decent healing build, but nothing spectacular- a few main issues that I can see.

Peace and Harmony- you'd be far better off taking a mesmer or necro secondary and investing in other energy management skills like Energy Drain or Offering of Blood. Comparing Peace and Harmony versus Offering of Blood(as it's more dependable than Energy Drain, though not always as beneficial to your team):

Peace and Harmony at 13 divine(12 + minor rune) =
~96 seconds(assuming it lasts the entire duration) of +1 energy regen and 20% duration staff = 32 energy over 96 seconds, with an up-front cost of 5 energy- so over a minute and a half you'll be gaining 27 energy.

Offering of Blood at 10 Blood =
16 energy every 15 seconds at a cost of 5 energy, gaining you 11 energy every 15 seconds with an additional cost of ~50 health. Over 96 seconds, this equates to 66 energy gained at the cost of 300 health spread over that time- easily gained back by 2 healing touches. So, after you count in 10 energy healing back the health you sacrificed, you're still coming out with 56 energy- or about double the energy you're getting from Peace and Harmony.

Energy Drain gets the same benefits as Offering of Blood for energy gain, so long as you can find a target with energy to steal. It has a slightly longer recharge, but you don't have to spend any energy healing yourself back up after using it. Either of these skills will gain you double the benefit as Peace and Harmony, and you'll be able to attack while you're not casting spells for the added(although small) damage that you can do.

You speak out a lot against hex and condition removal. However, these both definately have their places. Removing a condition such as poison can save a lot more damage over time for less energy than trying to heal through the conditions. Condition removal skills have healing built-in, and something like Mend Condition has the potential to heal as much as orison up-front with the added benefit of removing the condition, with low energy cost and recast time. However, condition removal is generally more the province of protection monks. Hex removal can be a lifesaver- don't bother using it to remove something like Conjure Phantasm from a warrior unless you're not facing much in the way of hexes. Instead, it's great for removing backfire from other monks(so that they can heal without killing themselves), or to help remove debilitating hexes like Migraine- you'll heal far better spending 5 energy to remove Migraine/Arcane Conundrum from yourself with a hex removal skill than try to heal casting orisons at 2 seconds each.

Boon can be nice for short encounters, but in extended battles, it's generally a detriment to your healing capabilities. If you know you'll have time to refil your energy every 30 seconds or so and just need a ton of healing for that short period of time, boon is great. However, if you're fighting longer battles, it will end up reducing your healing capability. Maintaining Boon costs you 1 energy every 3 seconds and 2 energy whenever you cast a spell. In return it gets you basically an orison without the added divine favor bonus. If you're casting heals in rapid succession, it will increase your efficiency in healing(as you're paying 2 energy for an extra orison) as the time is short enough that you're not losing that much energy to the upkeep cost. However, chain-casting with boon will run you out of energy quickly. Over a longer duration, you'll generally be able to heal more due to the higher number of spells you'll be able to cast.

Just using Orison of healing and boon with equal attribute levels in healing and divine favor, you'll basically get 2 orisons plus your divine favor bonus(so approx 2.5 orisons) for 7 energy. Without divine boon, casting 2 orisons gets you ~3 orisons for 10 energy. Divine Boon will be more efficient than not using it so long as you're casting one spell every 3 seconds or so. However, if the average time between spells is higher than 3 seconds, divine boon looses out in efficiency to not using it. However, a 7-energy spell every 3 seconds is far beyond what you can maintain casting for an extended period of time, considering you'll only be regenerating 1 energy every 3 seconds.

Divine Boon is nice for spike healing, but overall, it's a better skill for specific builds than a general-purpose skill. You'd do much better bringing something like Healing Seed to help counter focus-fire, and be able to manage your energy better.

audioaxes · Sep 22, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

my favorite pve healing build:
Mo/E 12 healing 12 divine 11 smite
vig spirit
dwaynes kiss
healing touch
word of healing
glyph of lesser energy
balth aura
rebirth
<variable skill>
prebuff players with vig spirit. Use This enchant helps give a bonus when you use dwayne's kiss as you standard heal. Use word of healing on near death players. Healing touch on yourself. Use the glyph ->balth aura combo on warrior to create a significant aoe dps. You can keep your at a near full health meter without mana strain as long as people take breaks before aggroing.

Silent Wandarer · Sep 22, 2005, 08:03 AM // 08:03

ur guild is goo but i disagree with u , a good monk NEVER runs out of energy thus for my monk i use energy drain as elite skill and i can keep healing forever

Patrograd · Sep 22, 2005, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Wandarer

ur guild is goo but i disagree with u , a good monk NEVER runs out of energy thus for my monk i use energy drain as elite skill and i can keep healing forever

Energy drain is very unreliable and requires that you take your focus off healing, find a caster, drain them, back to party bar again.

Its interesting that many monks realise now that they cant take things like rez into tombs because of the time it takes, time they should be spending healing, and yet swear blind by energy drain which all things considered must take longer than a rez, certainly longer than a signet by the time you've found your target, drained, and switched back.

if i was to be tempted by any form of energy management beyond my own ability to heal efficiently with the correct skills then it would have to be offering of blood, which is so vastly superior to energy drain its untrue. It's much, much quicker and doesnt require that you scan for a target - same kind of energy pick up too. 10% of maximum health is a small price to pay.

At the end of the day though, i would maintain that if a healer is running out of energy as a matter of regular course then they arent doing it right. Ok, you can get energy drained yourself, but thats one of those things. At the end of the day your team should be preventing mesmers from reaching you, shouldnt they? why do you think korean teams always attack mesmers first? They do it to protect their monks, or more accurately to protect their monks energy,

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 22, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Monk only build with Monk only stats?

Half-assed, half class

Plain and simple...

Eonwe was right, this is a monk just begging to die...

Without ANYTHING to supplement your job [aka keep healing], you're farked over with a single blow like Diversion/Backfire... [oh don't worry, your teammate with remove/convert hex will be wearing the same hexes you are]

sidepocket13 · Sep 22, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Easiest way to heal:

Mo/me

Heal: 12 + 1/2/3
Div: 8 + 1
Inspiration: 10

Inspired Hex
Energy Drain
Dwaynas Kiss
Orison
Touch
Healing Seed
Rebirth/Restore Life/Ressurect
Drain Enchant/Other skill

i have used this build before and it works REALLY well, i have recently tweaked my build around a bit and it is working for me i run
healing breeze
heal other
Energy Drain {E}
Dwaynas kiss
orison
heal party (for emergencies only)
healing touch
rebirth

energy drain has a farely short recharg time and the 15 points i get for 5 spent (10 overall received, + 3-4 with my recharge at 4 blips during the casting) works well for me. depending on the situation i will switch out heal party with seed. it isnt perfect by any means, but it works for me (obviously its for PvE only)

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrograd

Energy drain is very unreliable and requires that you take your focus off healing, find a caster, drain them, back to party bar again.
Its interesting that many monks realise now that they cant take things like rez into tombs because of the time it takes, time they should be spending healing, and yet swear blind by energy drain which all things considered must take longer than a rez, certainly longer than a signet by the time you've found your target, drained, and switched back.

are you sure you dont have this confused with energy trap? energry drain only has a 1 second cast time, while trap has 3 seconds. as far as finding a caster to drain, i dont discriminate, i drain whoever is closest

and a rez sig has a 3 second cast time......... 3 times longer then energy drain

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 22, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

You see? A monk WITH SECONDARY SKILL/STAT is always better than a monk only...

Dzan · Sep 22, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Condition control is a must, in pvp anyway.

I also didnt see any good energy management in that build. If you aren't using E-drain or even OoB I can't take you seriously.

Zhou Feng · Sep 22, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Blessings

Do you suck at healing? Do your Warriors die before you cast smite hex on them? Do Elementals heal more than you do? THEN YOU CAME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!

I am a level 20 monk, and have played a monk charater for over 350-500 hours (havent' checked in a long time).. and been a monk ever since GW came out. I have around 400,000 exp. So trust me when I say I know what i'm talking about. Well I am writing this guide on how to be a Elite monk because many monks, even level 20 at SF just doesn't know how to HEAL effectively.

Personally, I went with a team of 7 people who where not healers, and healed all of them effecitively and easily and EVEN did this in the PvP Tomes and healed everyone effectively and not 1 of them died!!! (ahem, till i hit 0 mana).

Anyways, if you really want to be a good monk, then you must first understand how a monk works, their role, and what you must do to keep your party alive effectively.

Here is the 3 rules of becomming the Elite Monk.

1. Never bring Anti Condition, Curse, Hex spells.

Thats always rule number one! Many people bring useless spells like smite hex, or remove hex. Although removing a hex from your ally is a good thing, it won't heal them. Now just sit and think about it for a second. If that hex or curse was on them, would it kill them? No, other than Degen spells. All conditions, hexs, and curses end. They do not have a infinite time period, their not gonna stay on your ally forever, so let them die out through time. Instead, bring a heal spell in its place.

2. High Mana Regeneration

Did it ever occur to you that you can never heal anyone with 0 mana? That means mana is very important, and without it, your not going to heal Anyone. So always have the maxest, highest mana regeneration as possible.

3. Bring Low mana spells vs high mana spells.

Always bring healing spells that cost 5, not 10 or 15. Its okay to bring atleast 1 or 2, but if your direct or primary healing is with 10 mana, your skrewed. Make SURE that your primary healing is 5 mana healings pells.

Now thats all I'm going to say about becomming a good monk, however I won't leave you clueless. Test this build i'm about to post below and ifs not good as a spiker healer monk, then please feel free to critize it, but with it, I have healed a team of 7 offensive units without a problem.

1. Healing Breeze
2. Healing Touch
3. Orision of Healing
4. Dwana's Kiss
5. Signet of Devotion
6. Peace and Harmony
7. Divine Boon
8. Rebirth

How this Build works:

Use healing breeze to passive heal anyone taking heavy damage while you constantly machine gun orision of healing and dwana's kiss spells. Use Healing touch to heal yourself in dire times. Use signet of devotion to cure scratchs whe you do not want to use mana, and also use it when you have 1 or 2 mana left and need to heal someone, by the time you do, your mana will be at 5 or 6 again, enough to use orision or dwana. Use Divine boon first and then peace and harmony or you will cancel PH out. The extra mana regeneration cancels divine boon which makes you a high healing effective machine. Of course, rebirth needs no explanation, if you want, bring restore life in its place.

There you go monks, if you need help getting a good build THERE IT IS!!! Hope this helps all you people out there who get terrible monks for partners!

~Ice Blessings~

Nice except I will definetly drop Healing Breeze ASAP and get something more utilarian for PvP. Like for example Healing Seed.

As a Mo/Me you get better energy management options. I prefer to bring Energy Drain and Inspired Hex because they not only allow me to get energy but Drain works to deny energy toc asters while Ins Hex helps remove hexes too. I prefer Heal Other because it might cost ten but heals for twice as much as Orison. I also bring Orison, Healing Touch, Dwayna's Kiss and Healing Seed.

Still loved the post

sidepocket13 · Sep 22, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Condition control is a must, in pvp anyway.

I also didnt see any good energy management in that build. If you aren't using E-drain or even OoB I can't take you seriously.

ok, maybe i am an idiot, but what is OoB? i cant find it anywhere