Curse

SnipiousMax · Oct 11, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I've read in a few places that there isn't much benefit in maxing out (putting 16 points) into certain skills, such as Expertise, Energy Storage, Fast Casting, Divine Favor, Strength, etc. So my question is, is this true, or is it point of view? Are there skills you want to max out, such as Weapon skills or magic? I thought the general rule of thumb was to focus on three or four attributes, and distribute points according to how much you depend on them. Which attributes if any have little or no advantage past say 9 or 10?

Well just thought I'd throw it out there. Please give me your imput!

Schorny · Oct 11, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

It depends.

For example if you are using Tainted Flesh, you don't need 16 in death, because Tainted Flesh is still good enough at 10.

But if you want to max your damage because you are for example an air ele, you really want 16 points in air.

It really depends if you need that much power in one skill line. Most times a decent amount is enough, but there are many situations where you want to max it out.

Arcador · Oct 11, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Depends on your build. The situations that you need many attribute points are many, but in certain cases you can have 2 by 12 and you can max it out to 16. Of course it depends on your build - the skill you will use and the intesity of them compared to the attribute you are maxing. Expertise can deliver devastating poin-blanks for 16*4% = 64% which is 4 mana per point blank shot. And you can spam them in every 3 seconds... Also some of the best defensive and run stances are for expertise.

Energy storage is a little triky - most of the times you would preffer to have 6 or 9 mana less than doing +5 - +15 more dmg every spell dont you? Maybe some elementalist based on HIGH mana (support - smiters, shutdown mesmers and so on) can use 16 of energy storage.

Divine favor depens on the skills you use. Sometimes 16 divine favor is more effective than 16 healing or 16 prot.

Fast casting beats me. I have never played mesmer, althou it seems to be the most deadly class in the game.

Strenght - of course! There are some superb skills using strenght. Also it gives pasive armor penetration!

Soul reaping also beats me. It is too much situatiom dependant and have no skills on it. I never put more than 9 pts on it.

Sereng Amaranth · Oct 11, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

There is not one simple answer to this. I'll give you some of my knowledge.

Expertise:
4% less for every point
12 points = 48% less energy
16 points = 64% less energy
There's a table on this site that lists the actual costs for skills at each level of expertise.

Necro:
Awaken the Blood increases Blood and Death 2 points, you could get 18, 19 with a +1 20% item. At 19, Life Transfer is probably -9/+9, maybe -10/+10. Now isn't that an argument 'for' maxxing your attributes? You could give someone max degen with 1 skill, and the passive AtB.

There are times when you wouldn't want the extra points though. For instance, would you want 16 in Beast Mastery for a few more dmg points with your pet and have the -75hp? Its entirely your choice and you should develop a skill set/attribute point distribution to go along with your build.

White Designs · Oct 11, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

You never need more than 14 expertise based on rounding. Back in the old days I ran 15 for a Echo/Debil Ranger under QZ but with QZ sucking 14 is the critical point, 13 if you don't use many 10 energy skills.

Ollj · Oct 11, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

fear the pyramid pattern

Code:

a0	a1	a2	a3	a4	a5	a6	a7	a8	a9	a10	a11	a12	a13	a14	a15	a16	a17	a18
5	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1
10	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0
15	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1
25	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1

Makkert · Oct 11, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

fear the pyramid pattern

Code:

a0	a1	a2	a3	a4	a5	a6	a7	a8	a9	a10	a11	a12	a13	a14	a15	a16	a17	a18
5	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1	0	0	0	0	-1
10	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0	-1	0	0	-1	0
15	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1	0	-1	-1	0	-1
25	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	-1

Ollj does it again...I have no idea what this pretty picture is supposed to be....
As for expertise, known hotspots are 9, 13 and 14. These are the breakpoints for 5 and 10 energy skills, the most used skills.

Ollj · Oct 11, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

actually 3 8 and 13, just dont use 10er skills and enjoy 15er skills with that much expertise. using more 10er skills needs +1 expertise to pay off.

-1 = hot spot for skills that cost "a0" energy at "ax" expertise. they cost -1 less for each -1 passed.

the expertise pyramid pattern is so simple, it hurts!

Makkert · Oct 11, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

That is an expertise table?
amazing. Ollj, you have a staggering talent to make simple things look incredible difficult and unreadable.

I suggest the rest of the world population simply will use the following table:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...sts-id1154.php

Ollj · Oct 11, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

its just another display of the same but you can not see the pattern when the numbers are summed up.

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

IMO if your looking for a really general guideline on how to spend attributes... my advice is look at what skills you bring, and then just shift your attributes until you feel that they are doing as much as you would want.

for example, if you were looking at say, inspired hex, and inspiration. and wondering where you think would be a good place to put your inspiration attribute, just slowly move it up one by one until you feel your getting your moneys worth.

like people said before the places where thats hard is expertise (since it refuses to tell you how much you get), and some other things like axe/sword/hammer mastery, which have effects like criticals which really arent explained/shown in game. there are some others like strength etc... just search the forums for those if you really feel like it.

or you can spend the evening working out ollj's table

romO · Oct 12, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

16 expertise is common for trappers, 16 energy storage has been done, 16 fast cast is a MUST when doing ranger spike, 16 divine favor isnt bad if you are a prot with divine healing/divine int/spellbreaker. im trying to think of a use for 16 strength but i cant lol

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

16 expertise is common for trappers, 16 energy storage has been done, 16 fast cast is a MUST when doing ranger spike, 16 divine favor isnt bad if you are a prot with divine healing/divine int/spellbreaker. im trying to think of a use for 16 strength but i cant lol

you clearly never tried the uber sprint build.

erm...

oh and if your on the subject of 16s... most ele primaries that are supposed to do DAMAGE usually go with 16 in their element...

pagansaint · Oct 12, 2005, 02:45 AM // 02:45

16 Weapon Attribute for a Warrior primary thats main focus is damage.
12 at the bare minimum for full damage/crit rate.

Makkert · Oct 12, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

16 fast cast is a MUST when doing ranger spike

fast casting and rangers? please explain....

One and Two · Oct 12, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

16 expertise is common for trappers, 16 energy storage has been done, 16 fast cast is a MUST when doing ranger spike, 16 divine favor isnt bad if you are a prot with divine healing/divine int/spellbreaker. im trying to think of a use for 16 strength but i cant lol

Trappers usually put 16 into wilderness, not expertise.
Elementals put 16 into their damage type, not energy storage
No ranger spike group uses 16 fast cast. That requires Me/R.
I can't really think of too many monks who go and get 16 divine, but whatever you say.

pagansaint · Oct 12, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

fast cast is that high for lingering/rend enchantments from a Me/N so that he can slap the enchant removal off AS they attack the target. Not the most solid plan due to lag, but it works fairly well.

romO · Oct 12, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

yeah, the 16 fast cast is for the Me/N in ranger spike groups, so that he can liger/rigor/rend as soon as the target is called and there will be no enhants once they begin the attacks. rend and lingering are very long casts and no curses really require long duration, especially not in ranger spike, so 16 fast cast is a godsend.

jesh · Oct 12, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I know someone posted an expertise table, here's a fast cast one. 16 is about half cast.. pretty dang fast.