Curse

LifeInfusion · Aug 24, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Why do so many players shy away from things besides Mo and Me as secondaries.

The only time I see Warrior as secondary is when it is a mesmer Illusion weapon build or monk for 105 build.

I know each class has its benefits, but I fail to see why so many people fall into the typical:
W/Mo <-- typical "tank" with healing hands, bonetti's defense, etc.
E/Me <-- typical fire echo "nuke"
Mo/W <-- typical 105er with prot. bond.
Mo/Me <-- typical energy steal healing monk

Where is the innovation if everyone falls into these three "predetermined builds"?

What, does everyone hate Ranger or Necro as a secondary? I have yet to see a Mo/R that actually uses ranger skills.

The other day I met a Me/E fast cast nuker, and that really seemed neat. I also have seen some W/Me running around.

I am thinking of going E/N simply because I don't see too many of them. But then again, I've been using this E/Mo (with the exact same name, mind you) since beta day one. I was kind of sad when I logged in the first time after release to find the loads of stuff I had in beta were overwritten. Oh well.

Rawru · Aug 24, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I know a fairly sucessful Mo/R, she uses lots of bst mastery and is healing otherwise. She does pretty well, her pet chomps on those that would otherwise try to chomp on her.

Morganas · Aug 24, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

For all you know every last one of those players innovated and created their builds independently. It's more likely that everyone saw the same benefits in taking certain common combos and went with that, rather than they all looked up the same build online.

Great minds think alike.

Concerning PVP...
Monks usually have no choice but to go mesmer secondary because they need energy management, which limits them to nec or mesmer, and they need a way to prevent hexing, which leave only mesmer for hex breaker.

E/mo's are one of the most common class combos in the game, second only to w/mo's. They make good smiters.

W/Mo's are still common in pvp, but if everyone stops grouping with them, maybe they'll go away.

Odai · Aug 24, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I'm running a N/R.
For now I'm concentrating on the Necro's "screw up the other guys skills" with a little Ranger interupting tossed in.

Once I get my Necro skills set I plan on working in more Ranger interupt and healing skills.

MY 1st alt is a W/Mo so I can do some self healing to 1. be more independent and 2. to allow the monk more opportunityto take care of the other party members.
My other 2 toons are Me/N and E/Me.

I like running my Necro through her paces but I use the other 3 as a diversion from time to time.

Ensign · Aug 24, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Genrally Monk, Necromancer, and Mesmer make the best secondaries. Monk is incredibly popular as a secondary because it's incredibly useful for soloing, and for keeping yourself alive in general. Remember that most people play in PUGs so the Monk support isn't always there.

Mesmer is a great secondary for the Inspiration line. Just about all casters want some energy management and Mesmer is the way to go for that. If you're not making a /Monk, /Mesmer is probably the best way to go for any caster class.

Necromancer is a similarly great secondary, though it has fallen out of favor. I'd guess that it's because it isn't nearly as obvious as some classes, especially in PvE where disrupting the enemy just doesn't seem to be valued. In PvP, Nature's Renewal has pretty much singlehandedly hosed this secondary, since it's usually taken for shutdown hexes (yeah) or enchantment removal (hahah). Still, if neither of the previous secondaries apply to your character Necro is a great way to go - I particularly like it on Rangers.

Warrior and Elementalist are generally shallow secondaries. So many of their skills only work at high attribute levels, making you commit to running that line, and that's really not what a lot of people are after from a *secondary* class. That said, Warrior is still solid for the Tactics line and the defensive stances that come with it, and Elementalist is great for Wards and other assorted defense. Those work at moderate levels, and are pretty good splashes because of it. I actually prefer /W and /E to /Me on a Monk in PvE, because energy isn't as much of a problem, and it's easier to really maximize the defensive bonuses.

Ranger is the bastard child. The whole class is really crushed by Expertise - it flies with that attribute cranked up, but is a bunch of overcosted slop without it. There are a few bright spots, like Spirits, but there really isn't a whole lot to get from this secondary compared to the others. I'd call it trash outside of really specialized builds.

Peace,
-CxE

Savio · Aug 24, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

W/Me? Sounds like me

Problem with it is /Me does tend to have a lot of high-energy skills, which warriors aren't too good with. Also, many W/Me's in PvP fall into the "Illusionary Weaponry" build, which isn't too great. In PvE W/Me's are decent.

Cymmina · Aug 24, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

In PvP, I use Mo/R for Draw Conditions + Melandru's Resiliance. Most mesmers use necro secondary to round out their skill set. I most commonly use elementalist as my ranger's secondary for the conjures and spells like Blurred Vision.

ElderAtronach · Aug 24, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

W/Me? Sounds like me

Problem with it is /Me does tend to have a lot of high-energy skills, which warriors aren't too good with. Also, many W/Me's in PvP fall into the "Illusionary Weaponry" build, which isn't too great. In PvE W/Me's are decent.

I don't know what kind of W/Mes you're running into, but most of the good ones I've found have been echo-blackout warriors. They can still whack you good even with their own skills disabled for a short while

Morganas · Aug 24, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Echo fear me is also great. In fact, putting echo on any sort of warrior with bonus utility is great for when that utility isn't needed. You can always echo an adrenal attack skill instead of blackout or fear me or whatever.

taion · Aug 24, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

There are also other considerations relevant in elementalist secondaries. Glyphs are useful for some energy management with no attribute point investment; Shock can be useful on axe warriors.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 24, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

I don't know what kind of W/Mes you're running into, but most of the good ones I've found have been echo-blackout warriors. They can still whack you good even with their own skills disabled for a short while

If you use Echo + Blackout as a W/Me you're going to run out energy so quickly you might as well forget about it.

Either respec for Energy Drain or take Flourish. At 11 Domination you've got 4 seconds between Blackouts (without Echo), so throw out a Savage Slash, Distracting Blow, and hit Flourish to keep up your energy. Zealous helps too.

Aalric · Aug 24, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I'm a W/N - I specialize in Axes, Curses & stances. & with Parasitic Bond I also have self healing. Not all Warriors have to fall into a cookie-cutter mode.

Aalric Rhynwood

Zeru · Aug 24, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aalric

I'm a W/N - I specialize in Axes, Curses & stances. & with Parasitic Bond I also have self healing. Not all Warriors have to fall into a cookie-cutter mode.

Aalric Rhynwood

Not all warriors have to fall into a bad build mode either.

PB and curses on a warrior is very inefficient use of skills/attributes in the majority of situations.

Blackout is pretty bad right now in tombs (used improperly anyway most of the time) because QZ is pretty much a constant and 13 energy every 10 seconds is completely impractical on a warrior to disrupt 1 target while severely gimping yourself. Blackout has its uses when you want to spike a monk while the other 2 are disabled, but other than that its not really good at all.

If I want a warrior with disruption I'll take an echoed fear me with sig humility and shutdown half the enemy team very nicely if they dont have WaM (this combo is so powerful with spirits abundant. go cyclone axe+fgj!) or constant aegis.

samk1 · Aug 24, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Yea i see a lot of /Mo's but i also think monk as a secondary is the best way to beat the game with since monk has healing, protections and smiting skills. And and /Mo for a warrior is he best tank i think!

_Zen_ · Aug 25, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

What, does everyone hate Ranger or Necro as a secondary? I have yet to see a Mo/R that actually uses ranger skills.

I use my Ranger skills all the time with my Mo/Ra... I use both sets of skills as much with that character as I do with my other two (El/Ne & Wo/Me).

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I used to run a W/me with echo blackout, he wtf pwned everything.

Racthoh · Aug 25, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

/mo is great for the endless resurrecting, main reason I switch back to monk. Zealot's Fire works great for my tanking build because my other 7 skills trigger it.

/n I love for the supporting. Blood is Power, Well of Power, Blood Ritual, Order of Pain/Vampire... all nice and fun to use.

Rajamic · Aug 25, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

If you don't plan on ever really using your secondary (like a lot of Rangers) /Mo is great just for Resurrect or Rebirth.

Schorny · Aug 25, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Many people I know take Mo as secondary in PvE just because of Rebirth. If you go all on your primary class */Mo is a good idea. You don't need to skill rebirth because the skill locking is totally unimportant.

Gerbill · Aug 25, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I love the necromancer secondary it's realy versatile, especially with it's curses.
Monk secondary is really nice aswel.
Mesmer secondary can be useful with about any job even if its just for the energy drains.
Elementalist secondary would be to conjure most of the time, or the protective wards I'd say.
Ranger secondary if you want spirits or traps or maybe a pet to go along with your primary profession.
Warrior secondary, if u want to use a melee weapon as a caster or maybe some tactic defensive stances.

to each his own.