Curse

White Designs · Oct 17, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Since this discussion was wandered into Ranger spike, let me shed some light on the matter.

-Aegis, Guardian, Shielding Hands, Seed are all solid counters that can be fit into most any tombs build. Shields Up, Shield of Deflection, and Ward Against Harm are more situational but definitely very solid skills all around.

-Shutting down the last guy really isn't too hard. Even at 16 Fast-cast, Lingering Curse and Rend Enchantments will take 1.5 seconds to get off. Easy to see coming and interrupt if you babysit the Mesmer.

-I think Ignite Arrows spike is alot stronger than Read the Wind. Marks is just too iffy and requires full enchant strip. unlike the auto-trigger Ignite Arrows.

-That being said, all counters I listed goes to crap in tombs. Why? Because good Ranger teams are designed purely for altar domination. If I ran a team like this, I would expect to lose a few rounds in Relic Runs or 1v1's but once I got to the Hall, (by skip or by not facing a really good 1v1 team) I'd be ready to take it and hold for a long time. The presence of the third team makes even a team purely designed to counter ranger spike an underdog in the alter map that is Hall of Heroes. If not holding, Ranger's provide excellent disruption against the holding team's defense and make it nearly impossible for the holding team to last very long. Then interrupting the 3rd hero nearly always guareentees your hero capping. If defending, well, annoying stances and lots of res sigs makes it very hard for an enemy team to cap, since they need to eliminate your entire team and thus chew through 4-5 res sigs, Whirling Defense, etc. Like Zeru mentioned, only one ranger is needed to delay an enemy hero forever.

Entropius · Oct 17, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Infuse Health isn't trash, by any means. It's trash on a standard monk healer, since it costs so much energy, and on a primary monk there are many more efficient spells. Heal Other usually can take over the role of large heal against all but the fastest spikes, and thus Infuse will wind up wasting space on a primary monk's bar since it's so inefficient: you use 10 energy for something that Other could accomplish most of the time, and then, since you only use Infuse rarely, you wind up panicking the *other* monks, who burn 10 energy dropping Other on your half-health arse.

However, it's possible to run characters that are made for using Infuse Health, and they can be surprisingly effective. (Don't want to hijack the thread discussing the merits or lack thereof of this build, only to say that it's been proven in HoH.) Mine is:

10+4 Storage, 10 Heals, 11 Prot

Reversal of Fortune
Healing Breeze
Infuse Health
Protective Spirit
Vigorous Spirit
Ether Renewal {E}
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement

... but I'm sure others are possible. The basic idea of this one, obviously, is to use stuff that gives you health, and then use Infuse as needed to transfer that health to other people. Conveniently enough Infuse has a very fast cast time and recharge time (fastest spammable spell in the game), and conveniently enough Ether Renewal handles such spells rather well, even in its currently well-deserved nerfed state.

Lews · Oct 17, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Lara is one of the 3 best ranger spiking teams out there right now.

EpC, MMPR, and Lara. 2 of them are guilds.... and one is just a damn good person.

Entropius · Oct 17, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

The trouble with Ignite is that it triggers seeds, meaning that a random person seeded standing near the target will stop the spike.

Arathorn5000 · Oct 17, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

See a lot of random seeding do you?

smurfhunter · Oct 17, 2005, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arathorn5000

See a lot of random seeding do you?

actually, if you see someone spike with ignite arrows all you need to do is ball up and seed *anyone* (preferably someone who isnt the target)

White Designs · Oct 17, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

2 seconds is much too long for that to work.

smurfhunter · Oct 17, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

you do it preemptively...? you disable a spike for the duration of your healing seed. x 2, since most teams have 2 heal monks. then tough it in whatever time there is in between recharges

KuTeBaka · Oct 17, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

actually, if you see someone spike with ignite arrows all you need to do is ball up and seed *anyone* (preferably someone who isnt the target)

They use rtw+orders, not ignite.

Lews · Oct 17, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

No one uses ignite. Good teams use rtw + orders.

Yep, kutebaka's got it right.

The best way to spike? Use the clock

knives · Oct 17, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I just thought of an awesome counter.

Your build will incorporate a warder, and a spirit/ trapper, interrupt ranger to pull it off.

Ranger/ X

Fertile Season
Greater Conflag {E}
Serpents Quickness
Natures Renewal/EoE/Frozen (whichever you are more comfortable with)
Ressurection Signet

Trapper
------
Flame Trap
Barbed Trap
Dust trap

Interrupt
------
Choking Gas
Savage Shot
Concussion/Distracting Shot

Elementalist/X

Ward Against Harm {E}
Ward Against Melee
Ward Against Foes
Ward Against Elements
Earth Attunement
Obsidian Flame
Malestrom/Deep Freeze/Iron MIst
Ressurection Signet

Setup greater conflag in the ward against harm, stay in that ward, and watch their physical damage turn to fire damage, and them barely scratching you. Malestrom if you fear the heal ball, deep freeze if you fear the moving monks, and iron mist if you fear the relic run. Obsidian flame just for the last bit of damage to finish off a dying opponent.

tafy69 · Oct 17, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

What if they kill your spirit? But good try tho

I guess you could fertile spam with oath shot, atleast targets wont drop before you even get a spell off then

Gamesguy · Oct 17, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

You could bring a standard E/W warder, WAH+Watch Yourself+Shields up makes ranger spiking almost impossible.

tafy69 · Oct 17, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamesguy

You could bring a standard E/W warder, WAH+Watch Yourself+Shields up makes ranger spiking almost impossible.

Yes nice, works against IWAY too. I Like it

Kabale · Oct 17, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Sheilds up is a solid choice. Also agree with using the terrain to your advantage (doesn't work on altar maps tho).

As for the bind thing, use ventrilo or roger wilco. I haven't tried setting it up but I believe it's part of the program (ie, no 3rd party thing).

As mentioned previously, the in-game 'time elapsed' or 'time remaining' counter is also a great tool for coordinating a spike. "Spike on :10"... "Spike on :20"...couldn't be easier.

romO · Oct 17, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lews

Lara is one of the 3 best ranger spiking teams out there right now.

EpC, MMPR, and Lara. 2 of them are guilds.... and one is just a damn good person.

thats not true. lara gets way more credit than he deserves. hes pretty good, but its not him that makes the build. plus its not like a pug. its always the same people in the group or the guild. if you want to say its a damn good group, then i will agree with you.

DarkAynjil · Oct 17, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

What are you doing letting a me/n that stands out like crazy, cast a 3s hex? And why is it that aegis and shield of deflection are outdated? They work against rangers and warriors just as good as they always have.

With Fast Casting, it comes down to about 2 seconds for lingering, probably less. Also, you will usually see a rigor mortis or two. A good ranger spike team will "spike" a fake target, such as the prot monk with Punishing/Savage shot 1st, which is a decoy - they will then spike the real target with dual shot, and drop him like a sack of potatoes. (Like say, the other monk...)

Zeru · Oct 17, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Darkaynjil if your monks fall for that then they suck. And if your mesmer or ranger can't interrupt a 1.5second lingering wtf is he doing.

Good monks should always be watching for the longest acting key skills of the spike to have advance warning when it's coming. When you see dual shot you know it's time to react. 4 times out of 5 this spike is savable in gvg without any anti-ranger counters (saying this after playing all 3 of the upper tier teams running ranger spike). If they can't get their orders off it's very easy to save. In tombs this is lessened because you can't position as well but in tombs triple aegis and static ward defense becomes MUCH better.

If you really want to own ranger spike on the altar check this out (credits to SNA for finding a ridiculously annoying defensive build):
Dolyak Signet
Glyph of Concentration
Ward Against Harm
Shields Up
Watch Yourself

All of these builds are weak in that they have a 5th character to run orders or punch through a target, making it easily identified. If you disable that character their build gets just runover.

Schorny · Oct 17, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

And if your mesmer or ranger can't interrupt a 1.5second lingering wtf is he doing.

then he is facing mantra of resolve?

asdar · Oct 17, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Even if mes takes lingering off it's still already stripped the enchantments from the target. Taking the hex and probably cover hex only slows things and occupies the mesmer, you still have to find a way to stop the damage within 3 seconds.

Shields up is great if your warrior is right next to your monks, or one of them is a mo/w carrying it but then they're less strong against other things.