Curse

The Miracle · Nov 25, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Well, since the new patch, monsters and ghosts (in the HoH) never stay still when we trap, they move everywhere, so it is a little bit harder ^^

a cadet · Nov 25, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Just yesterday i had a fight with an 8 man R/W ViM trapper group, and i thought id share our strategy on how to beat these groups:

We had the fight in Burial Mounds, so it was a 1 on 1 with a priest. They trap team was always balled up, and they initially balled around their priest. Our team had 2 warriors, and our only ranged attacks were maybe 1-2 rangers, im not entirely sure.

Our first idea was rather obvious - seed the warrior, he runs in sets off traps and we go from there. The problem was, there were far too many conditions for a monk with Restore Condition to handle. The team had no Signet of Humility spam or anything, but the warriors were still having serious trouble doing anything other than fueling the ViM and dying from traps. After a somewhat pointless 15 minutes of them running around, getting restored and occaisonally dying, they rushed us, we lost the majority of our group and we fell back to our priest where we got resd (The group has alot of trouble killing a target if there is even one restore monk saving that one target, so just one prot monk was able to keep the priest alive for ~30 seconds). After we resd, there was a brief fight over our priest, which we lost, but again we were rendered completely useless because our warriors were DPed and could not do anything from the near constant blind/stances.

We decided a new approach; we captured the Obelisk, balled around it and waited for them to come. Naturally, they balled up somewhat near us (both priests were dead by now, so that had no significance). In the spare time our team took to wanding them. Remarkably, thats really all it took. The only way for them to effectively lay traps was with Whirling Defense on, which has a much higher recharge than duration. They rely on the QZ spirit to shorten this duration and make it feasible to lay traps, even with someone attacking you. So all the casters (even the warriors took wands) just wanded a different ranger, and killed their spirit as soon as we could. We were blocking a huge majority of their traps, and since no one was actually getting conditions ViM did them nothing. A few got frustrated and rushed towards us, getting summarily killed by the warriors as they did so. Since we had depleted most of their energy by distracting alot of traps/Healing Springs, we were actually able to even kill some by just wanding/getting the ranger to attack some. I imagine if we had an earth or fire ele it would have been much simpler.

In any case, we simply whittled them down by wanding, and once we felt that they did not have enough traps we sent the warriors in again, this time it worked and they lost. The fight took ~30 minutes.

My summary of how to beat them? Play to your strengths, not theirs. If you have a warrior, dont send him in to attack unless feel that you are disrupting enough traps, rely on ranged attacks and wanding is surprisingly effective. We beat them with only a ranger or two as the ranged attack, we did not have any elementalists. If you had an earth ele I imagine some aoes like Earthquake would devastate them, or even something like Meteor Shower would break their ball and allow you to hunt them down individually. The key is to stop them from using ViM.

Just my own experience on playing against the build.

Kariston The Swift · Nov 25, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Yea you won't beat that build with anything warrior heavy. My team beat it by using Meteor shower on the ball and then when they all ran out to reform the ball one of the warriors used wild blow to drop his whirling and we took down that one. After that we would just take down one ranger at a time. Although I must say it was still fairly annoying :0

tafy69 · Nov 25, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

Just yesterday i had a fight with an 8 man R/W ViM trapper group, and i thought id share our strategy on how to beat these groups:

We had the fight in Burial Mounds, so it was a 1 on 1 with a priest. They trap team was always balled up, and they initially balled around their priest. Our team had 2 warriors, and our only ranged attacks were maybe 1-2 rangers, im not entirely sure.

Our first idea was rather obvious - seed the warrior, he runs in sets off traps and we go from there. The problem was, there were far too many conditions for a monk with Restore Condition to handle. The team had no Signet of Humility spam or anything, but the warriors were still having serious trouble doing anything other than fueling the ViM and dying from traps. After a somewhat pointless 15 minutes of them running around, getting restored and occaisonally dying, they rushed us, we lost the majority of our group and we fell back to our priest where we got resd (The group has alot of trouble killing a target if there is even one restore monk saving that one target, so just one prot monk was able to keep the priest alive for ~30 seconds). After we resd, there was a brief fight over our priest, which we lost, but again we were rendered completely useless because our warriors were DPed and could not do anything from the near constant blind/stances.

We decided a new approach; we captured the Obelisk, balled around it and waited for them to come. Naturally, they balled up somewhat near us (both priests were dead by now, so that had no significance). In the spare time our team took to wanding them. Remarkably, thats really all it took. The only way for them to effectively lay traps was with Whirling Defense on, which has a much higher recharge than duration. They rely on the QZ spirit to shorten this duration and make it feasible to lay traps, even with someone attacking you. So all the casters (even the warriors took wands) just wanded a different ranger, and killed their spirit as soon as we could. We were blocking a huge majority of their traps, and since no one was actually getting conditions ViM did them nothing. A few got frustrated and rushed towards us, getting summarily killed by the warriors as they did so. Since we had depleted most of their energy by distracting alot of traps/Healing Springs, we were actually able to even kill some by just wanding/getting the ranger to attack some. I imagine if we had an earth or fire ele it would have been much simpler.

In any case, we simply whittled them down by wanding, and once we felt that they did not have enough traps we sent the warriors in again, this time it worked and they lost. The fight took ~30 minutes.

My summary of how to beat them? Play to your strengths, not theirs. If you have a warrior, dont send him in to attack unless feel that you are disrupting enough traps, rely on ranged attacks and wanding is surprisingly effective. We beat them with only a ranger or two as the ranged attack, we did not have any elementalists. If you had an earth ele I imagine some aoes like Earthquake would devastate them, or even something like Meteor Shower would break their ball and allow you to hunt them down individually. The key is to stop them from using ViM.

Just my own experience on playing against the build.

lol nice 1

The Miracle · Nov 25, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

That was a god damn pretty good analysis ^^

Gratz

Quote:

A few got frustrated and rushed towards us

That sure wasn't us ^^ We never get frustrated, we always take our defeats as real good experiences ^^

glenn_rolfe · Nov 26, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

AOE brother

pagansaint · Nov 27, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Fear Me! and Warriors Cunning works pretty well at E.Denial and trap/spring interruption.

Melandru's Resilience on the Monks is a good energy and health solution to the conditions.

Deep Freeze is just funny, expecially coupled with Water Trident and a couple other Water spells.

Death Nova, Necrotic Traversal and Edge of Extinction are all pretty good if used right. So is Well of Suffering if you can manage to get the spell off, helps against them balling up on you, isn't a hex that can be removed, and decent degen and duration. VERY nice if coupled with hex and condition based degen.

Plague Touch/Sending/Signet. Signet and Sending preferably. Give the ---- things back to them. A pure adrenal warrior chaining plague touch/sending can cause them some problems.

If you use rangers, use R/N and Plague Sending and Called Shot. Get rid of blind and use an unavoidable attack to interrupt their trap/spring with QZ up from THEIR team and using Serpent's Quickness you can chain them out pretty quick, interrupting just a handful of traps will stop their damage from becoming unmanageable.

Aftershock, Crystal Wave(funny if coupled with fragility and others plague touching/sending conditions onto them) Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Eruption, Chaos Storm, Maelstrom while using Deep Freeze are all fun choices.

Ollj · Nov 27, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

ViM is actually just an intelligence test against all the rangers, mesmers and eles out there.
This is why it only works late at night and best agasinst iway.
Its so damn funny to play ViM at night, just to whor warriors how much iway sucks

vim weaknesses:

-same as iway, MUST go into melee or it only has 15% of its strenght (still enough to bust an iway team).
-same as spirit spammers, attack the quickening zephir, its damn expensive and slows down the efficiency of everyone who uses vim!
-elemental spikes, if you get lucky someone cant use a good enough ViM to prevent him being spiked when he is spiked!
-keep one targets energy below 5, its DAMN frustrating if you do not have the lousy 5 energy to get full energy for more than 4 seconds!!!
-go in a lose formation, NEVER have 2 allys adjanced, then remove conditions from the one player that is surrounded by enemies and vim becomes useless.

The Miracle · Nov 27, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Nothin' left to say I guess xD

Kabale · Nov 28, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Yeah this build is pure IWAY-hate, fun to play for a laugh, it's very satisfying, but is frustrating against a team that knows what's going on, so is therefore useless.

I came across one and I was the restore conditions monk, and I constantly had one of their rangers try and interrupt me, but luckily he sucked.

I'd like to see this build with 2 rangers having a secondary bow and spamming debilitating shot on the enemy prot monk ^^

Manfred · Nov 28, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

gosh, that would suck.
modified 8 trappers with 2 interrupters taking down the prot monk would be anoying as heck, unless you had a good hexer.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 28, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

i dont fight in tombs, but i have gone up against alot of these teams in TA
when its just 4 of them it is alot easier, with my pet master i just send in my pet to diffuse all the lain traps and had another ranger attack the person i have MoP'd and rigor mortis'd

OneArmedScissor · Nov 30, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight of the UW

i found, in the hall that when trappers take the alter they tend to ball up around the hero, i found spiteful spirit to work quite nicely here. if you can get spiteful on 2-3 of them dealing 37-41 dmg (depending on if you use awaken of blood and have 16 curse) each time they use a trap they will kill themselfs.
and btw i have seen many trapper groups using mantra of resolve because of whirlings recharge time and the lack of oath shot. And they do have pretty unlimited energy with ViM thats where warriors dont come in handy because they would be the source of the groups energy/health

How can they use Mantra of Resolve when they're R/W? They can't use VIM if they're a mesmer.

Rey Lentless · Nov 30, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I've been seeing this more and more lately.

Isn't real well played, but is an annoying build. I guess the iwayers are branching out.

Kariston The Swift · Nov 30, 2005, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Eh I thought the build has some novelty to it and I want to try it myself but now that from what I hear its becoming more popular I better not or I'll get labeled a noob

Divine Elemental · Nov 30, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

AoE
Wand The Trappers To interupt Traps

Lou · Nov 30, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I've only went up against ViM trapper teams twice and both times they tore us apart. They had an energy denial mesmer echo'ing energy surge and shutting down two of our monks. And everytime you take down the spirit they bring it up seconds later. and one energy denial mesmer isn't enough because ViM replenishes it really fast. The only answer I would see is an FOC group.

a cadet · Dec 02, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Actually, the concept of a ViM/Trap team isnt completely bad, its just the 8 R/W version thats bad.

For example, a team with multiple trappers lets the monks use ViM as their elite, crushes IWAY teams, etc.

I ran a build with 2 (maybe 3, i cant remember) trappers, 2 Warriors and a non-trapper Ranger (interupter i think), the rest were ViM monks. It won halls early in the morning (enough for Korea to take the favor away from America

), mostly because the conditions kept the Protection Monks busy with Restore Condition (or whatever they used), sharply increasing the effectiveness of the Warriors.

Just because the extreme version of this build - with 8 trappers - doesnt work well, doesnt mean a more balanced version of this would not work.

nohooiam · Dec 03, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

the 8 trapper build is just an anti iway setup that loses to any team with condition removal. there's nothing to get heated up about over here.

thegame2009 · Dec 03, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Carry Restore Condition instead of Martyr. Have one warrior carry Wild Blow. GG