Curse

Wrath of m0o · Dec 10, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Ranger Spike ..the new iway. Whats the best counter for it ?

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 10, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

It depends on the exact Ranger spike build, but here's the basic counters...

Offensively, their Mesmer/Necro order-spammer is the source of a lot of their damage. Put shutdown on him immediately and make him a prime target - if you can drop the Orders Ranger spike's damage becomes a lot more manageable and you often cripple their pre-spike hexes, such as Lingering Curse.

On the Rangers themselves, things like Blurred Vision and Dust Trap can shut down a spike, or alternately Cry of Frustration. Energy denial probably remains the most effective counter against them, as shutting down their energy either increases the time between their spikes or simply prevents them from spiking effectively.

Defensively, don't bother with maintained counters like Aegis or Life Bonds, as those will just get stripped by any good team. If you must have some sort of maintainable counter, use skills like Shields Up and Distortion to evade spike damage before it comes.

Have your Monks run Infuse Health, and infuse a target if they begin to get spiked. Infuse is the only spell with a fast enough casting time to be effective, and if your monk has quick fingers it will usually save them.

Once you've shut down their spike potential, kill them like any other team. They don't really have any particular defenses, aside from being uber-armoured rangers.

qwe4rty · Dec 10, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Greater Conflagration is potential too

Klmpee · Dec 10, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

enviroments help out alot. the underworld as a huge circle thing in the middle.. use it to ur advantage. every map has some sort of terain that can be used to block the arrows.,

SaintGreg · Dec 10, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

I disagree, I think aegis is really one of the the best ways to counter ranger spike. Sure, they might fake enchanment removal to obscure the actual target, but quite often they won't, and even still it might be possible to prot both faked targets. Having chained aegis means that everyone gets an enchantment so the second you see someone without one you know the target, which is half of the battle. This will give the prot guy hopefully enough time to put a guardian on the guy (especially if he is a MeMo prot

). The guardian will not stop the spike 100%, but it will slow it down to a crawl, giving plenty of time to get fast 1/4 second heals off like infuse, divine boon + reversal, etc. But without a guardian or a defensive stance there will be little hope of timing even a 1/4 second heal in the middle of a spike since it will happen too fast (if they are good - which is what you going into a battle assuming).

Greater conflag is an option, but just like fertile season, they will spike it very quickly and then even in a perfect world it would take 5 seconds to get another one out. And since the world isn't perfect, good luck ever trying to get it out again (considering ranger spike is also interrupt heavy, requires hitting with oath shot and mimicking greater conflag itself, etc.) Having everyone bring a defensive stance would really be the ultimate counter to ranger spike, but it limits basically everyone to either W or R primaries, and everyone else to Me secondary for distortion. I haven't encountered ranger spike often enough to warrant something like this, especially recently.

Shields up is ok, but its not enough evade to really stop the spike dead, but it may be enough to get fast heals in time. But it is still tough to justify bringing it. Cry of frustration will certainly own one spike dead before it even started, but with a long recharge you would need like 3 dom mesmers to have it be effective overall.

Red Locust · Dec 10, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Have a boon prot monk, use the terrain to deny the rangers line of sight, and pay attention to when/who the rangers are going to spike, reacting accordingly.

Failing that, kill a ranger or the mesmer (their monks will usually have their eye on the mesmer so he'll probably be difficult to spike out) and their spike is ruined; they shouldn't be able to kill much with one member down. Their weakness is the same as that of most "gimmick" builds - break one and they all go down.

Manfred · Dec 10, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

I don't agree that taking out the order necro is the best counter. Good anti-melee hexes reduce damage sjust enough, and if you've gotten them to even 1/4 miss rate, the spike will no longer function.

Josh · Dec 10, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

If your a Warrior, or using IWAY yourself, "Defensive Stance" and such just counter Ranger spikes easy, lol.

Hannibel · Dec 10, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

energy denial mesmer tear them up, just drain there energy so they can't spike, since the whole team is based on energy if you depry them of there energy it makes it very easy to beat.

glenn_rolfe · Dec 10, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Yep energy denial is really the best way. If you are running a good holding build you'll probably have fertile season too which will help you survive the initial spiking until e-denial takes over.

Since I run 2-3 e-denial mesmers I have one drain the me/N and 1 on a ranger (usually the r/n who is their target caller if they set-up that way). With infuse health on a monk you can't get spiked down and slowly you can begin to drop their monks.
Make sure your infuse monk is covered with spellbreaker and shield of deflection/guardian as often as possible.

But again, disable the me/n or a ranger and the spike should be survived. Like all spike teams they need every part to work, so always try and disable one of the spikers so they can't spike anymore.

And always hide from arrows - don't stand out in the open and like idiots.

Ez Cheez · Dec 10, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Things that help defensively:
Terrain in general...try not to stand in the open
Boon RoF
Infuse
Aegis
Guardian/Sheild of Deflection
"Sheilds Up!"
Fertile Season
Any other defensive evade stances

Things that help offensively:
Taking out Winnowing and Favorable Winds
Quick Knockdowns (gale, mind shock)
Blinding Flash/Glimmering Mark
Blurred Vision
Energy denial/interupt mesmers (surge+burn+cry of frustration)
Traps (dust and spike)
Taking out the orders or a spiker as quickly as possible

Caros · Dec 11, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Blinding Flash+epidemic stopped a few spikes earlier, but it's too high energy.

thegame2009 · Dec 11, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

lol i have stopped the spike with 2 diversion mesmers on my team... just diversion dual shot on the rangers and it's GG... we did have one death on their initial spike though...

Sir Aurik · Dec 11, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

qz + signet of weariness=omg i cant spike i have no energy...

tafy69 · Dec 12, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

As stated here there are tonns of ways to help vs ranger spike, but without going overboard and taking them all, you should take some basic precautions:

1. Infuse Monk : A good infuser will catch most of the non perfect spikes

2. Person with gale : Most balanced teams have some1 with gale, get him on the ranger caller or on order necro if he uses mantra resolve.

3. Diversion - This is pretty devistating to them, they will be screaming at their monks for hex removal

4. Natures Renewal - They all run Bonders, and with the orders being enchants too its gonna annoy them a lot. This doesnt really go with the diversion spam, that would be just ouch!

I would just go for Infuser with 2 mesmers using diversion, 1 go on order necro and 1 on a ranger. They will get some spikes through at the start but after you should be ok.

Kabale · Dec 12, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Timed knockdowns are a pain. Shock/gale a ranger and the spike usually isn't enough to kill someone. But ya, don't put on your frenzy if you're a shock warrior... cos they will notice, and they can easily spike a frenzied warrior with only 3 rangers.

dansamy · Dec 12, 2005, 11:14 AM // 11:14

And guardian is a 1s cast. That's too slow against a really good ranger spike.

Shadow Zone · Dec 12, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

What about Enfeebling Blood? Maybe with Shadow of Fear

Taurus · Dec 12, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Constant aegis helps a lot not only with the 50% blocking but even if they remove enchants, because you can see whos the target of the spike by seeing whoever gets his enchants removed in the party member list.

The only spike I dont seem to know how to counter is ob flame spike... gotta work on offensive I think, maybe 1 KD warr stoping 1 of the eles and 1 int ranger with mesmer skills on another.

crimsonfilms · Dec 12, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

The only spike I dont seem to know how to counter is ob flame spike

The best defense is offense - this includes any spike build.
For rangers, take down the necro and spirits fast.
Aegis is OK but can be stripped, which itself adds about 100 points of damage if Shatter is used.

Ob Flame? Interupt it. Almost every Ele spike build can be often stopped by Mesmers skills. But of course, you still need to some offensive maneuvers to neutralize the threats.

Playing defense is the worse you can do with any spike build.