Curse

tafy69 · Dec 09, 2005, 08:24 AM // 08:24

99% of teams runs the standard 2 Heal 1 Prot monk backline. It works well hence the reason its so popular.

But when you run a Bonder with 2 Healers things can get a bit tricky.

Idea

2 Prot 1 Heal

Bonder :

Life Bond
Balthazars Spirit
Vital Blessing
Blessed Signet
Mantra Inscriptions
Aegis
Martyr (Elite)
(Guardian/Shielding Hands)

Boon Proter

Boon
Channeling
Drain Enchant
Mend Ailment/Condition
Shield Deflection
Aegis
RoF
Shielding hands/Guardian/Prot Spirit

Healer

Spell Breaker (Elite)
Dwaynas Kiss
Heal Other
Orison
Inpired Hex
Channeling
Heal Party
Holy Veil

They skills would need a bit of reworking but the idea is the same. Lots of dmg reduction from 2 protters, with boon and healer to heal damage taken.

I have sort of tested this but we ran into lots of Surge teams, and our team didnt shut them down as planned

Will try test again today, and will post the results. Meanwhile comment away!

Elrodien · Dec 09, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Im not really qualified to say whether its a good idea or not, being a relative new comer to the tombs and its strange ways, but I have played all types of monks in GvG and CA and TA as well as in pugs in the tombs.

I would always bring a heal with me regardless of my role especially a bonder, as once you have your bonds up and running (and no-one is stripping them), you don't have a lot to do and have all this energy sitting at your fingertips. A healing touch or orison would be useful or since most bonders have high DF, Divine Healing might be a good one to bring.

But, in terms of strategy, it is relatively sound. Very useful vs IWAY (until they drop natures renewal if they have the wit to bring it). Natures Renewal kind of ruins the party for a bonder doesn't it?

tafy69 · Dec 09, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

If you face a team where your bonder is loaded with energy, and enchants are not getting striped then you won anyway.

Natures Renewal really puts a downer on a bonders day, just make sure you kill it fast.

Worst that will happen is you lose all bonds but your 1st 2. So aslong you cast 2 lifebonds on the other monks 1st then you are fairly well off still.

As soon NR dies you can start your mad bonding session again.

Kabale · Dec 09, 2005, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Yeah I've always wanted to try this setup. However, I think the boon monk will run out of energy pretty fast unless he goes the standard OoB way.

The good reasons for bringing a boon prot to me look like:

1. Someone to stick a RoF on (big heal, perfect anti-spike) and Prot spirit, since a bonder rarely brings these
2. Additional condition removal when Martyr/Restore has SoH'ed
3. A longer Aegis, as well as the wonderful Shielding Hands.

Cons, however...

1. No healing seed.
2. Could be difficult with energy management, especially when not running OoB for energy.

banishd · Dec 09, 2005, 11:44 AM // 11:44

or you can just run 2 monks.

Except you dont run spell breaker in gvg...
and the boon prot has no elite....wtf?

and kabale, healing seed is bad in GvG.

Elrodien · Dec 09, 2005, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Two monks have a high risk of getting overwhelmed though don't they? On the other side of the coin, An extra offensive player may be all that is needed to give you a massive, hard to defend attack - but you would need to be very agressive and fast. It would make defending a position very difficult unless you use warder eles or monk secondaries.

Billiard · Dec 09, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Bonders run really tight energy wise - I don't think you'll have a chance to cast aegis much. I'd suggest maybe mend ailment instead to go with your Martyr. I don't think you can run a two monk back line if one of them is a bonder unless some of the other team members help with things like energy management (EP runs BiP to help out) as well as maybe hex and condition removal. The nice thing about spreading some of these things around is that if one character goes down, then you still have them available on other people.

Sephir Demange · Dec 09, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Hmmm, for bonder advice I'd listen to Kabale. I rarely play bonder but Teh Kirsty (Kabale) is one of the finest bonders I've ever had the pleasure of playing with.

QuixotesGhost · Dec 09, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I don't understand how a bonder monk in PvP (I've only played one in PvE so far) prevents blessed signet from getting interupted. Aegis helps but isn't foolproof. Do run behind walls or make sure you are out of range of rangers when you hit the signet?

tafy69 · Dec 10, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I don't understand how a bonder monk in PvP (I've only played one in PvE so far) prevents blessed signet from getting interupted. Aegis helps but isn't foolproof. Do run behind walls or make sure you are out of range of rangers when you hit the signet?

Thats part reason for the boon/prot with guardian or shield deflection.

Kabale · Dec 10, 2005, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by banishd

or you can just run 2 monks.

Except you dont run spell breaker in gvg...
and the boon prot has no elite....wtf?

and kabale, healing seed is bad in GvG.

I never mentioned GvG anywhere

Although I wouldn't count seeds out completely in GvG either..

Quote:

Bonders run really tight energy wise - I don't think you'll have a chance to cast aegis much. I'd suggest maybe mend ailment instead to go with your Martyr.

This depends on what you're facing and how many you're bonding. I'd say around 70-80% of groups have at least 1 or two warriors or rangers, which is basically enough to fuel your balthazar's spirit, and if your have the same on your team, there's really no need to bond them.

It only gets tricky when you've got an edenial on you, which again is pretty common.

dansamy · Dec 10, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Even edenial isn't too bad when bonding, because you'll lose all but the 1st 4 you cast. Make suer that's the bonds on your monk buddies, your balth's and a bond for the next squishie that's the most liekly target. (If you've got a SD mes, then make sure he's the guy that gets your 3rd bond. I can tell you the other side's monks will be screaming at their damage dealers to "get the mes" if he's any good at all.)

mamluk · Dec 10, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Even edenial isn't too bad when bonding, because you'll lose all but the 1st 4 you cast. Make suer that's the bonds on your monk buddies, your balth's and a bond for the next squishie that's the most liekly target. (If you've got a SD mes, then make sure he's the guy that gets your 3rd bond. I can tell you the other side's monks will be screaming at their damage dealers to "get the mes" if he's any good at all.)

Heh, I just want to quote this for extra emphasis. These are the sorts of tips that separate the good players from the not-so-good ones. Although, I think that if your team is disciplined to keep a decent formation, your non-monk squishies might be higher priority targets to bond than your monks. Regardless, the point is, think about who you want bonds on the most and bond them first.

In gvg, the main problem I have with bonding is the use of enchant removal before spikes. If teams know you have a bonder, they are going to rip them off right before spiking. It basically makes a bonder useless in that situation. Therefore, as a team, you have to prepare for how you are going to handle losing bonds. Perhaps interrupts/kd's (e.g. gale) on the enchant strippers? Its something that you have to be aware of.

And dedicated bonding outside of gvg or tombs doesnt make much sense to me. I love to see bonders in arena on the other team. However, a /Mo with a bond on the highest priority target can be smart.

dansamy · Dec 10, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamluk

Heh, I just want to quote this for extra emphasis. These are the sorts of tips that separate the good players from the not-so-good ones. Although, I think that if your team is disciplined to keep a decent formation, your non-monk squishies might be higher priority targets to bond than your monks. Regardless, the point is, think about who you want bonds on the most and bond them first.

Heh, thanks. I'd like to think I do a good job at bonding, as it's one of my favorite prot builds.

tafy69 · Dec 11, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamluk

And dedicated bonding outside of gvg or tombs doesnt make much sense to me. I love to see bonders in arena on the other team. However, a /Mo with a bond on the highest priority target can be smart.

Bonding in tombs makes a lot of sense, Especially when u get 3 way alters and are being ganked by 2 teams.

And IWAY ofcourse, also holding teams with bonder and symbiosis/fertile spammer can be very tough to crack.

SaintGreg · Dec 11, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

When our guild runs team arenas, we use a bonder, and a battle rage warrior putting bond on the bonder, succor on the other monk. It works very well, but alot of that is due more to there aren't really any good team arena teams, so even a decently organized one basically cannot be beaten. Plus in team arena's there is very little enchantment removal, which is the bain of your bonding existance in gvg or tombs.

A R I A N · Dec 13, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Healer

Spell Breaker (Elite)
Dwaynas Kiss
Heal Other
Orison
Inpired Hex
Channeling
Heal Party
Holy Veil....

This is very bad build.... look closer..and only you have orison and heal party to heal yourselg Spell B. has very large cool down and most of time you r easy target...

Nirvana Of Love my pvp heal monk has:

infuse health - against spikers
divine intervention
word of healing E
orison
channaling
healing breeze
heal party

if u have good bip necro, then channaling is not mandatory, you can have healing touch, or divine healing...

problem with dwaynas kiss, is that that you cannot see how much conditions party member have... and if you spam that a lot, you will lost energy, and get your party killed...

most of new monks, heal when party memebers have 98% health, its a BIG mistake, I heal when theyrs health reach middle, and if I dont wory about mesmer, no one will die, exept spliters

tafy69 · Dec 13, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by A R I A N

Healer

Spell Breaker (Elite)
Dwaynas Kiss
Heal Other
Orison
Inpired Hex
Channeling
Heal Party
Holy Veil....

This is very bad build.... look closer..and only you have orison and heal party to heal yourselg Spell B. has very large cool down and most of time you r easy target...

Nirvana Of Love my pvp heal monk has:

infuse health - against spikers
divine intervention
word of healing E
orison
channaling
healing breeze
heal party

if u have good bip necro, then channaling is not mandatory, you can have healing touch, or divine healing...

problem with dwaynas kiss, is that that you cannot see how much conditions party member have... and if you spam that a lot, you will lost energy, and get your party killed...

most of new monks, heal when party memebers have 98% health, its a BIG mistake, I heal when theyrs health reach middle, and if I dont wory about mesmer, no one will die, exept spliters

Are you serious or you trolling?

dansamy · Dec 13, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Dwayna's kiss is a very good spell when you have a bonder in the party, as your target will always get at least one bonus off of it from the life bond. Add in a bonus from a hex (pink arrow, people!), and it's one HUGE heal for 5e.

Patrograd · Dec 13, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

In GvG teams are moving away from 3 monks now, onto 2 1/2 monks and even just 2 monks in some cases. Comes from the heavy spiking in GvG making monks largely obselete. How you set those monks up to still be effective against non-spike groups is the trick I think.

Even in tombs we are just starting to see more of this - 2 x mo/x and 1 x/mo, with the x/mo probably having a 50/50 split between damage and monk skills. Most recently in tombs I noticed a top guild playing a necro/monk who was carrying their bonds, using OOB for energy regain which in turn allowed him to use some necro damage skills (Vamp gaze, shadow strike etc). Nice set up.