Curse

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Heres some background, you might ignore it and look at the numbers though. IDK.

I run a Guild thats always top 50 when we can play a few maps a night, but that is hard for us to do lately cause of school, so our ranks not so good making it harder to recruit.

We try to GvG with Guests which kinda sucks but its all we can do if we want to play, hoping to raise our rank enough to recruit some more good players.

Over Xmas break we were had about 50 wins with 8 losses cause we played with out many guests and could play alot cause no school.

Were at 30 wins and 14 losses since the reset...

We have 4 losses aginst rank 1-10 teams
We have 3 losses aginst teams from 10-50 rank.
We have 4 losses to Smurfs of top ten teams.

Aside from being very unlucky about playing alot of top 10 guilds, were getting tanked by smurfs 50% of the time we play a top ten team.

When losing to say Te we got a -6, no big deal.
When losing to PuG and they had at least 4 Te members and Te's build but we got -20 in VoD.

When losing to YAY we got -7, in VoD.
When losing to IWAY, they had 8(i think) YAY members, and we got -19 in VoD.

The other two losses to smurfs were EnS Smurf for -18 and some other top 10 smurf that was ranked like 600 and gave us -20.

If we had gotten -5 for every loss to the 4 smurfs we would still have 8 losses to top ten guilds which is very unlucky matching but we would have 1249 Rating instead
of 1192.

We would be ranked around 80th place ( putting us in observer, and giving us a good chance to recruit since we always put up a good fight even when losing to top 10 guilds ) Instead were ranked at double that 160.

This is why, imo, my guild can't recruite enough good players to be really competitive in gvg.

I think its ironic that a common complaint of the high level guilds is that they are sick of having +1 games, well maybe if they didn't tank guilds like mine they would have some better games once we actually got some decent active members.

/rant

I makes me wonder how much "testing" this is and how much ladder manipulations when 50% of the time we play a top 10 team its thier smurf, and even after forcing a VoD stand off with 3-4 guests, they feel the need to beat us. You Test for 36 min of Gameplay are you still just Testing, or are you manupulating the ladder, cause You might think you would let us have the +5 win after helping you test, if you were just testing.

Eonwe · Feb 03, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

This ladder season is largely irrelevant so I wouldn't be worrying about it too much. You know, nothing to get too worked up over

.

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

thanks for pointing out what we all already know, and ignoring the fact that if I can't get more active skilled members its relevant to my guild. I wish you would read the post before, saying stuff like that.

Sinjin · Feb 03, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

yeah - two smurfs routed us hard too. we felt those effects -19, -17.

(not that we're overly obsessed with rating - just sucks to have emotional dp from getting rocked by a smurf)

/agree

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

If the 4 smurfs had let us win, and said thanks for helping us test our build, like we used to do when we were Smurfing from our top 50 guild.

We would have had about +8 from each of the 4 games our rating would be 1281, and our rank near 60...not 80.. or 160.

Thanks for Tanking us when you are only "testing" on a smurf and not manipulating the ladder.

I guess you had to TesT what would happen at 36 minutes when you kill the guild lord?

Boofhead · Feb 03, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Were they definitely testing and not just messing around or practicing?

Four Pool Rush · Feb 03, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

PuG isnt even a Te smurf, stop jumping to conclusions and improve your skill. No one is here to "let you win". Get over it.

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

"Testing" is the excuse that most guilds use when they smurf.

The other reason to Smurf is to manipulate the ladder. this is supposed to be illegal.

I can't say what they were doing, but honestly it does seem like these guilds are manipulating the ladder, and not testing.

Of the 4 smurfs we played Only the, EnS smurf was testing a build I hadn't seen them use as EnS.

Why does YAY have to make a new guild, fill it with YAY players and GvG with YAYS build, only to beat us after VoD, If it was just a test, you can say the same for Te.

Four Pool Rush · Feb 03, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Can a mod please close this thread? There is an abundance of false information in this and the last thing the community needs is another smurf rant.

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Four Pool Rush

PuG isnt even a Te smurf, stop jumping to conclusions and improve your skill. No one is here to "let you win". Get over it.

typical response, from some top ten guild that tanks guilds like mine when they "test builds"

Everyone knows that Te guests for PuG to Test for IZZY, but why do they need to tank ratings if they are just testing?

If you think playing 6 Te members and 2 PuG members is very different from playing Te your just wrong.

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Four Pool Rush

Can a mod please close this thread? There is an abundance of false information in this and the last thing the community needs is another smurf rant.

none of the info is false, sorry you think it is... yeah close the thread it exposes ladder manipulation for what it is.

Arathorn5000 · Feb 03, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Play more matches, and those losses, while annoying (if you care about rating this season), will be almost meaningless in the grand scheme. You take a rating hit, big deal, that means you gain more the next time you beat a guild that's ranked higher than you if your true rating should be above them.

In xoo main over the past week our rank has fluctuated between like 80 and about 500, and we play with people who have never GvG'ed before. If your guild is truly top 50 calibur like you say, just play matches and you'll get up there.

Four Pool Rush · Feb 03, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

sigh, people will complain about everything when they lose in this game. Even worse is now you're stereotyping guilds which makes your arguments even more silly.

xRustyx · Feb 03, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Everybody dance now!

/dance

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Four Pool Rush

sigh, people will complain about everything when they lose in this game. Even worse is now you're stereotyping guilds which makes your arguments even more silly.

ok yeah we need to get better... We were top 50 fo several months, we beat the number one guild on the ladder, we beat several guilds that made the tournament, we need to get better.

I'm trying to get our rank back up so we can recruit enough players to be active, but we get tanked and 100 possitions on the ladder is alot. I know if we were 60 and I wanted to recruit im gonna get players that are way better then when im 160 -200 and trying to recruit.

Yeah, I never Saw Iq smurf and tank us, but your gonna honestly say you never smurf and beat teams with 100% iQ, 100% iQ current build. Its not a like im trying to stereotype you esspecially if its true. When you say "ZOMG NOOB YOU SUCK GET BETTER" What do you expect.

If iQ had to play every game on iQ with random 3-4 Guests from IRC I doubt your record would be any better then ours. It not a rub on the guests, we couldn't even pay with out guests, and im glad we can get guests, its just a fact.

Star Gazer · Feb 03, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

recruit*

Chase the Sky · Feb 03, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Your complaints are irrelevant as an affect to your rank.

Every guild of every rank ends up fighting the top 10 smurf guilds some way or another so they all experience the 20 or so point loss.

Since everyone has the same limitations there is nothing to complain about.

reboot · Feb 03, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase the Sky

Your complaints are irrelevant as an affect to your rank.

Every guild of every rank ends up fighting the top 10 smurf guilds some way or another so they all experience the 20 or so point loss.

Since everyone has the same limitations there is nothing to complain about.

untrue, every american guild... if we played in Eu time zones we would probally be top 20 from what I see in observer, and it wouldn't matter cause im sure people would join us at top 20.

Ensign · Feb 03, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

If you had been beat by those guilds on their mains and only gotten -4 or -5 from each loss, your rating likely would not be that much better than it is right now. That is because you also would have gotten *less* points from every win due to your higher rating. A slightly higher rating also exposes you to more good teams and less softies which similarly affects your record. Pretending that everything else would have worked out exactly the same if a couple matches were different is foolishness.

Every other guild on the ladder is experiencing the exact same 'tanking' of ratings. I'm sure you could go through the records of the other guilds right above you and find similar -20s from good players playing on lower rated guilds.

In all likelihood your guild is very close to where it belongs on the ladder.

The sad thing is that you're screaming about 'ladder manipulation' during a ladder season that doesn't even matter. The playoffs are already set, and they're going to wipe the ladder again before the next season. Right now people are just playing for the hell of it and taking it about as seriously as you'd expect - Treacherous Empire for one has been running on their main guild with as few as three of their main guys, and we've been running untested builds on our main, sometimes with completely new characters that we have to learn on the fly, because, well, who cares, this is the Ronald McDonald Ladder Season.

No one is manipulating the ladder right now. There's no point.

Beating the teams you beat when playing on a second guild is the way you're supposed to play. Why? Because throwing a match to another team just because you're on a second guild *is* ladder manipulation. Some guilds used to do that, and A.Net put a stop to it. Why? Because guilds had to draw a line somewhere about who they quit out against, creating a double standard that is blatant ladder manipulation. If those guilds did quit out it would likely be to guilds above yours, while they'd happily beat you because you weren't ranked. Fair? Of course not. But they couldn't throw their games to everyone. Hence they have to play out every game normally against everyone for the sake of fairness.

If iQ had to play with 3-4 pickups from IRC every night we wouldn't be iQ and going to Taipei. We'd be some shitter guild that would have to cry on forums if we wanted attention because no one would care otherwise.

Not that crying on forums makes anyone care.

Peace,
-CxE

Sarus · Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

untrue, every american guild... if we played in Eu time zones we would probally be top 20 from what I see in observer, and it wouldn't matter cause im sure people would join us at top 20.

I'm pretty sure Europe has smurf guilds as well. Ditto for korea.