Curse

wheel · Feb 26, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

so suddenly your talking about gvg? It takes 2 characters to shut down 1 monk? That dosnt sound to overpowered to me. So at max with a 7 second blackout and a 3 second gale thats 10 seconds, 7 of which you can kite. Oh ya and they are using a cripple shot ranger, so thats 3 ppl. So how again is that overpowered? It only takes a domination mesmer to effectivly shut down a monk, but in your scenario it takes 3 different ppl.(2 if the ranger is using blackout, but then it only lasts for 5 seconds and he cant use any skills for 5 seconds, sounds like a pretty good trade off to me) And like Ensign already stated, if its not timed properly it dosnt make much of a difference.

The crippling shot ranger can still spread poison in that time period. Also, just because something has to be timed properly does not make something not overpowered. This would make rangerspike not overpowered, which is ludicrous. On dom mesmers: it takes a very GOOD dom mesmer to shut down a good monk- and btw, blackout is dom spec.

Jetdoc · Feb 26, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

To me, blackout is fun for a warrior to use in CA and TA, but really doesn't have much of a home in GvG as described above. If Blackout were a hex whose duration could be halved by the HoD helm, then I would see how it could have found a quick niche in GvG play.

The five second max duration for a warrior makes it rather unappealing for anyone other than a Mesmer primary to use, other than for a warrior to deliver a knockout blow against a monk/caster with low health (or even a 55HP monk in CA or TA).

scars of insanity · Feb 26, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Give me a break, you think one would be stupid enough to activate blackout 5 miles away?

If anyone want to use blackout, use it after you manually ran to them.

Proper knockdown > kiting, k.

Also, as mentioned earlier... this thread is not about "NERF THIS!!", it is to discuss the feeling of GWWC aftermath. At this rate, this thread will get turn into "NERF THIS" thread.

lol blackout doesnt appear by the targets name until he does reach the target so manualy running to him wont do anything diferent.

neoflame · Feb 26, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Selfblackout on a warrior? No thanks, Gale's better. Blackout on a R/Me who's already crippled/poisoned you? Yes please.

Divinus Stella · Feb 26, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Blackout works great in dual mesmers builds, it does more damage to spike teams than monks, if you have 2 mesmers constantly blacking out 2 ranger spikers there is no longer a spike, same goes for every spike build, shut down 2 and it should be a win. Blackout may be annoying, but i wouldnt say it gets abused its just that its a method of countering popular builds.
A skill that i do feel is abused is gale, only because of exhaustion reset with -energy sets.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Feb 26, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Idiotic sheep are those who are using underpowered skills in an effort to be unique and creative. At least the people that use things like Gale, Distortion, Blackout, etc. are using a good build. There's a reason that the character builds that were used in the GWWC guilds' builds are few in number. Why would you want to be unique for the sake of being unique when the mainstream builds are so overpowered.

Competitive play on the highest level has nothing to do with whether or not you're unique. It is about winning, no matter what it takes, even if that means bringing the same Gale Axer, Cripshotter, Boon Prot, and Dom Mes that everyone else brings. You just have to play smarter.

I NEVER said that being unique is strictly limited to using underpowered skills and that you forsake having an effective build just to be creative and unique. What I'm talking about are people who just follow the latest and most popular builds without doing experimentation of their own.

Are you telling me that Charles Ensign never tried out creative builds to test out their effectiveness? And what about Lulu? Heck all the popular builds started out as unique and creative builds. IWAY WAS a very unique and creative build before everyone copied it. And that's the people that I refer to as "idiotic sheep"

Nerdy · Feb 26, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

There are a lot of people running the builds from the world championships these days. Gee, I wonder why.

The thing about Blackout is that if you aren't using it well it might as well not be on your bar. A well timed, well placed Blackout can be devastating, but just randomly throwing it around is just a waste of everyone's time.

The good players make it good, and the bad players make it bad. I love skills like that.

Peace,
-CxE

Exactly. If a cripshot ranger in RA or TA wants to constantly chase monks around trying to spam blackout, then thats good with me.

They're basically just taking himself out of the game.

A good crippler with blackout uses it sparingly and when its called for. A bad one will also take himself out of the game by becoming a 'headless chicken' monk chaser.

twicky_kid · Feb 26, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

so suddenly your talking about gvg? It takes 2 characters to shut down 1 monk? That dosnt sound to overpowered to me. So at max with a 7 second blackout and a 3 second gale thats 10 seconds, 7 of which you can kite. Oh ya and they are using a cripple shot ranger, so thats 3 ppl. So how again is that overpowered? It only takes a domination mesmer to effectivly shut down a monk, but in your scenario it takes 3 different ppl.(2 if the ranger is using blackout, but then it only lasts for 5 seconds and he cant use any skills for 5 seconds, sounds like a pretty good trade off to me) And like Ensign already stated, if its not timed properly it dosnt make much of a difference.

1 dom mes cannot shut down a boon prot with CoP alone. I don't care how good you are its not going to happen. At least against me that is. Blackout is not a problem when you can run. Cripple shot throws that tactic out the window. 3 sec delay on next black out. Gale has that covered. There is simply nothing you can do except body block to keep the mes away from you or snare the mes.

If you cannot see why this is so affective in TA then you are obviously blind or just don't do pvp.

GvG isn't much different than TA. You take 2 TA builds and make it into a GvG build. Switch out one for a runner and you have a GvG team. Its a great testing ground but right now you can forget it.

X20A_Strike_Freedom · Feb 26, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I may be wrong, but couldn't the addition of Observer Mode have increased the usage of W/E Gale Axers or R/Me Apply Cripplers w/Distortion and Blackout?

I mean, if people saw high-ranked guilds using these builds and winning, wouldn't that try that out to? And then everyone would soon be copying everyone else, resulting in the same builds by every guild.

Not sure if this affects it that much, but just my opinion.

twicky_kid · Feb 27, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by X20A_Strike_Freedom

I may be wrong, but couldn't the addition of Observer Mode have increased the usage of W/E Gale Axers or R/Me Apply Cripplers w/Distortion and Blackout?

I mean, if people saw high-ranked guilds using these builds and winning, wouldn't that try that out to? And then everyone would soon be copying everyone else, resulting in the same builds by every guild.

Not sure if this affects it that much, but just my opinion.

I do agree with you on that except for one thing. The top guilds play different builds during the regular season. In the GWWC all I saw was cripple, wars, and blackouts from the tops guilds. The people that didn't got steam rolled.

Besides what has more influence the #1 build in all of GW proven by the GWWC or watching a build in observer that is ran some times?

It should be hard to get through healing but not impossible. In the games I've played since GWWC I hate monking because you just sit there watching skills you can't use.

zoozoc · Feb 27, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

1 dom mes cannot shut down a boon prot with CoP alone. I don't care how good you are its not going to happen. At least against me that is. Blackout is not a problem when you can run. Cripple shot throws that tactic out the window. 3 sec delay on next black out. Gale has that covered. There is simply nothing you can do except body block to keep the mes away from you or snare the mes.

If you cannot see why this is so affective in TA then you are obviously blind or just don't do pvp.

GvG isn't much different than TA. You take 2 TA builds and make it into a GvG build. Switch out one for a runner and you have a GvG team. Its a great testing ground but right now you can forget it.

How again does CoP keep a monk from getting shut down by diversion? And i have already gone through this, having a mesmer run past everyone to get to a monk will jsut get him killed. If you ever watch gvg its the rangers who use blackout msot the time and who run up to the monks, not the mesmers. And spamming blackout pretty much takes you out of the game, so why would you want to do it?
I never said blackout wasnt good in TA and gvg is a whole lot different then combining 2 teams of 4 from TA. Sure most split teams can essentially be broken down to tha lvl, but the tactics remain a whole lot different. and not everyone runs split teams for gvg.

twicky_kid · Feb 27, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoozoc

How again does CoP keep a monk from getting shut down by diversion? And i have already gone through this, having a mesmer run past everyone to get to a monk will jsut get him killed. If you ever watch gvg its the rangers who use blackout msot the time and who run up to the monks, not the mesmers. And spamming blackout pretty much takes you out of the game, so why would you want to do it?
I never said blackout wasnt good in TA and gvg is a whole lot different then combining 2 teams of 4 from TA. Sure most split teams can essentially be broken down to tha lvl, but the tactics remain a whole lot different. and not everyone runs split teams for gvg.

So you named 1 skill that can slow me down. That doesn't shut me down like you stated. Doesn't do much when already have holy veil on you either. 90% of my time in GW has been playing a monk. 80% of my time over the past year has been pvp. I know what can stop a monk and what can't. I can only speak for myself of course. You might eat up noobs with that but it doesn't work affectively against a vet. Diversion only slows you down. Occasionally it will catch the random spell when I'm in the middle of casting. In TA you are just wasting your time trying to use it.

Body blocking is the only thing that can stop a blackout. I've said my point on this over and over. Since you really offer nothing to the conversation I'll just ignore it. This is about the increase in use of the this skill not how affective it is.

All in all it doesn't really matter. Skill changes in 3 days. Being able to lock some one out forever will most likely be gone and that's a good thing.

Ruined · Feb 27, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Ok....blackout is a good skill, yes, but only because of the increase in spiking. Second of all, who cares if ppl copy the top guilds? They are top guilds for a reason. IWAY, for example, doesnt stand a chance against any team, that is for some gosh darn reason, ranked very high in the whole game of guild wars. It comes down to skill. And yes i do appreciate originality, and i have come up with some of my own that is quite effective, it doesnt mean that every time a decent skill is played all hell should be let loose. You are allowed to call out a blackout. Its not unheard of, for a monk especially, to call for help from teammates. This thread is getting stale, and while i understand your reasoning twicky, you didnt need to make the thread.

Later

sun is in us · Feb 27, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

All in all it doesn't really matter. Skill changes in 3 days. Being able to lock some one out forever will most likely be gone and that's a good thing.

This topic may be a bit moot due to the fact that there are several Assasin Skills coming that are even worse in some ways (at least against casters).

I am not sure why ANET would nerf blackout and yet introduce several more skills that will doing the same thing.....doesn't seem very logical.

And I know, I played a Caster Killer Assasin all that weekend and have a Mes main.....I could "Blackout" more effectively with the assasin actually....

Beat_Go_Stick · Feb 27, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun is in us

This topic may be a bit moot due to the fact that there are several Assasin Skills coming that are even worse in some ways (at least against casters).

I am not sure why ANET would nerf blackout and yet introduce several more skills that will doing the same thing.....doesn't seem very logical.

And I know, I played a Caster Killer Assasin all that weekend and have a Mes main.....I could "Blackout" more effectively with the assasin actually....

Shroud of Silence + Blackout ftw

sun is in us · Feb 27, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Yup. That was the first elite I picked out....and I tried to abuse it as much as I could that weekend......

Chase the Sky · Feb 27, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Arcane Thievery > Gale

Cripple shot + apply posion > Blackout

If the meta game is all about someone blacking out the monk and then using gale on said monk you need to adjust your build accordingly. Your ranger/mes can pack three skills that can prevent the other team from shutting down your monk. GG.

twicky_kid · Feb 27, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

The assassin can kill you quickly but dies fast himself so that works out in the end. I can't remember if shroud is a spell or hex. If its a hex its a useless elite for high end pvp. You also cannot use shroud through SB and OF. So far I haven't seen anything that is worse than blackout in the assassin line. If shroud is a spell then it could see some uses but nearly every evade or survival skill from assassins are spells so you might want to take that into consideration.

ONCE AGAIN I MUST POINT OUT THIS IS NOT A NERF BLACKOUT THREAD. Try acually reading the thread before you post plz.

This is a discussion of increase usage since GWWC and counters to blackout.

zoozoc · Feb 28, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The assassin can kill you quickly but dies fast himself so that works out in the end.

And a mesmer isnt? Plus the assasin dosnt have to run up to the monk, he can always teleport, and the only reason blackout is effective agaisnt monks is in smaller scale battles(like in a split team) and against teams running 2 monks. But blackout is still nothing compared to gale.
And lets take diversion, lasts 6 seconds, so pretty pointless to remove unless you already have holy veil on yourself, same recharge as blackout, same cost, dosnt shut yourself down for 5 seconds, and though you can still use a skill, it pretty much takes that skill out of the game for an extened period of time, and you dont have to touch your target either.
Again as many ppl stated, an easy way to stop blackout is a cripple shot ranger or some other slowing caster(ice ele perhaps) and if for some reason a mesmer is using it on you, simply kill it.(or shut it down) its a nice skill, but you dont see every top gvg guild running it. Thats why its a nice skill, its hard to counter especially in TA, my advice would be to simply take 2 monks. Counters it better then anything.