Curse

WasAGuest · Apr 06, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Gaile Grey mentioned no SF like additions to Factions. She said the team was working hard on Chapter 3 and onward. --- Can't find that link as I'm at the library and this goofy system doesn't like tabbing... but it's in one of the rescent posts/interview/in game visits she made.

It's also not so much the drops for me, cause as MSecorsky says, it will really just be a new skin. I and many others are looking for new challenges and these new areas are being "advertised" as being very tough. Best drops being there is just "fluff" as was also said.

If Anet does indeed add new areas vs what Gaile Grey has said, then I would expect as many new areas as there is locked areas. So if there are 5 locked missions, I would expect 5 new areas of equal challenge (and equal drops for those that are looking for those). It's all about fairness and balance after all.

Edit: The more I thought on it, the more "silly" anet would be to divert attention to adding more content to the game (via taking devs away from future chapters) when there is plenty of content already there... just unlink/unlock the content that is already there. Why Anet continues to put content behind "locked doors" (FoW, UW and now the Elite Missions) when it serves nothing but annoyance puzzles me beyond thinking. - It's not a reward so too speak, it's a really sad way to encourage players to compete to open them up. My opinion of course.

So far, ideas I've really liked are these:

Instant customized drops per account. An item drops and it's assigned to only that persons account. If that person does not loot it, it vanishes.

Unlink all missions from faction points. Faction points are still needed else where; items, faction standing. It doesn't need to be used to gain access to missions.

Mordakai · Apr 06, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Won't be better loot. Can't be. Balance issues at stake. Can be new skins endemic only to the areas, perhaps... but you'll never see, say, a 20>50 damage item.

OK, "better loot" was the wrong word. My point was that if the New Greens in Prophecy were a direct result of people complaining about rare golds, then their will be New Loot as a result of people complaining about Unique Items in these Elite areas.

A lot of "IFs" there, I know...

The Fox · Apr 06, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Edit: The more I thought on it, the more "silly" anet would be to divert attention to adding more content to the game (via taking devs away from future chapters) when there is plenty of content already there... just unlink/unlock the content that is already there. Why Anet continues to put content behind "locked doors" (FoW, UW and now the Elite Missions) when it serves nothing but annoyance puzzles me beyond thinking. - It's not a reward so too speak, it's a really sad way to encourage players to compete to open them up. My opinion of course.

Maybe this "encouragement to compete" is a method of keeping people spread out through various chapters of the game. As chapter 3 comes out and the amount of people playing factions decreases, it will be easier for the people who couldn't once hold an elite missions to do so.

The Fox · Apr 06, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

OPPS SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST... didn't realize I was in the same thread, and I'm not sure why the below quote isn't working.

[QUOTE=ducktape]Just a thought:
A sensible way I picture the Elite Missions stuff working is that the Alliance who controls the town holds it for their faction (Luxon or Kurzick) and then everyone in their faction (Luxon or Kurzick) can access the Elite Mission in that town by paying faction points or gold to an NPC. That would be similar to the current system of winning HoH and gaining access to FoW and UW for everyone in your country/server. Yet it would also address the complaint of "hey, it's not fair, my country hardly ever has favor of the gods" by narrowing it down to two sides fighting, and making it so that you choose a side, instead of having it based which server you are on. That seems very fair to everyone involved. As for compensating the Alliance who spent their faction points to control the town, their personal reward aside from access to the Elite Mission is discounted merchant prices, their Alliance emblem plastered all over town, parades in town, and who knows what else in the way of prizes and fame.
[QUOTE]

I'm hoping that is how the faction elite missions will be handled! Also I would let the controling alliance get in free and not have to spend any faction points to enter the elite mission for their town.

WasAGuest · Apr 06, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Maybe this "encouragement to compete" is a method of keeping people spread out through various chapters of the game. As chapter 3 comes out and the amount of people playing factions decreases, it will be easier for the people who couldn't once hold an elite missions to do so.

Oh, no doubt. What may be mis-read here is that I'm complaining about the system, rather I'm looking for a change to the system.

What Anet seems to be ignoring from many fans of the game though is this: Not everyone enjoys competing. The "encouragement to compete" is a "Discouragement to purchase" to me and many others. I for one, canceled my pre-order and have taken a wait and see approach. If I find that I can access the elite missions without being turned into a farm bot, or having to play competitively, then I'll go back and buy it.

What do I have against competitive play? Nothing. I find it boring and more rushed at the same time. I'm rushed all day, I log into to play a game to relax. I also find "See monk, spike monk" repeat all day extremely mind numbing and boring. Though kudos to those that enjoy that and find more to it than that.

Interesting thought on Chapter 3 and holding the territory after Chapter 3 is released though. What I read from that is this:

If players couldn't hold the areas while Factions is new and interesting, they may be able to once no one cares and the content is considered old.
I for one am one to jump into the new stuff and see it. I doubt I'll return to the old content very often nor will I care about it. If I were to pick up Factions and run out of things to do, I'll log out and return to another game. I'll do the same when I log into play an elite mission and find I can't access it.
When Chapter 3 is released Factions will be old news by then and I'll keep moving on, IF the content is there.
Take my stance on Factions right now. I'm looking at the new content. If there isn't enough to do and I end up looking back at Chapter 1, why then, would I spend the $50 on Factions? If Chapter 3 finally opens up Factions to me, then why would I buy Chapter 3? I want to experience the new content when it's new, not when the super alliances finally move on... which is why I'm here looking for good ideas on how we can make it work for everyone in game, not just one playstyle over the other.

In closing, look at the original EQ as an example here. As each expansion came out, the "old stomping" grounds became less and less populated. Getting groups together for those old areas became nearly impossible because no one cared about them anymore. It's the mind set of the players to see the new stuff, the more exciting stuff. There were hundred of areas in EQ I never saw because of the expansions that came out and we moved on. Holding territory for access to "outdated" areas will be moot and pointless as time goes on. Players need access right away when it's new other wise it's not really worth the investment (IMO of course).

ducktape · Apr 06, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Gaile Grey mentioned no SF like additions to Factions. She said the team was working hard on Chapter 3 and onward.

I know, I mentioned SF to point out that they added it to make high-end areas an unique items available to everyone at any time. I'd much rather have a new game every 6 months than a new game every year with one new area every 6 months. I'm glad they will have lots of new chapters frequently to keep us from getting bored.

It seems like ANet has made a lot of changes and additions and improvements in the game with the intention of making things in the game fair and accessible and enjoyable for everyone. Seeing their actions they have taken up to this point, it gives me hope that they will not suddenly try to force everyone into endless competition mode with Factions, since I don't particularly like being in a rat race either.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, we'll see which types of players lucked out when April 28th gets here. Hopefully we all get something good.

dreamhunk · Apr 06, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktape

I know, I mentioned SF to point out that they added it to make high-end areas an unique items available to everyone at any time. I'd much rather have a new game every 6 months than a new game every year with one new area every 6 months. I'm glad they will have lots of new chapters frequently to keep us from getting bored.

It seems like ANet has made a lot of changes and additions and improvements in the game with the intention of making things in the game fair and accessible and enjoyable for everyone. Seeing their actions they have taken up to this point, it gives me hope that they will not suddenly try to force everyone into endless competition mode with Factions, since I don't particularly like being in a rat race either.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, we'll see which types of players lucked out when April 28th gets here. Hopefully we all get something good.

I agree with WasAGuest, as for anet listening to group that is not always the case, Look at the AOE update. Anet have been listening and doing things for pvp. Like what guess said there is alot of people that are not in to competeing. Anet has been target marketing rpg players not pvp. So that means they are getting people with a different mind set and different ways.

Forcing them to compete is the warn move on anet's part and sales and marketing will be affected in the long run. You may not see it right away. But as time passies you will see it.

Mordakai · Apr 06, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Forcing them to compete is the [wrong] move on anet's part and sales and marketing will be affected in the long run. You may not see it right away. But as time passes you will see it.

I think it's way to early to be making statements like that.

I managed to go the entire Preview without joining a single group, and until I am forced to compete to enjoy Guild Wars, I'll keep my predictions to myself.

Kakumei · Apr 06, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Look at the AOE update. Anet have been listening and doing things for pvp.

What?

WasAGuest · Apr 06, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

What?

I think he's just stating what many other players are feeling with the release of Factions. It's leaning towards a more competitive style of play and since we've seen little but Fed-ex style quests for point gaining on the co-op side of things... well, many co-op players are feeling a bit shafted.
The AoE update was at first touted as a AI update, to make the mobs smarter. Gaile Grey has even now come out and told us what it really was... to stop or hamper the easy farming. The sentiment that comes about from trying to "fix" the ele class back to it's more powerful "nuker" status gets blocked constantly by issues of balance in the PvP game. So, that AoE update caused a chain reaction of bad feelings towards the different types of players. Further, each time an idea that improves the PvE side of things comes up, there's a 99% of a PvP issue blocking the way and calling "balance".
If Anet were truley worried about balance in this manner, we would see the higher end competitions locked out untill someone completes one of the Titan Missions in Chapter One and more like that in further chapters. As is, we'll likely never see true balance as Jeff Strain is a big fan of competitve play - just listen to his interviews - it's 90% PvP based. %'s are purely assumed and should be taken with a grain of salt. I have no actual figures to back these up.
On topic and as Dream hints at with the "sound" of his post, rather reflects the opinion of many... that Anet is taking the game in a direction they are not advertising for. The FPE invite had mention of a RPG with PvP sprinkled on for variation. The invite also showcased the many RPG awards the game has won. The actual game play is becoming the opposite though. End game RPG content is locked out (FoW and UW) untill HoH is won and favor gained. Factions elite missions are reliant on Border moves (12v12) and point farming through Fed-ex style missions or PvP mini games. Most of this was already covered in earlier posts in this thread and others.
My main consern now is that unless Anet does start listening better and stops trying to shove competitve play at us, Chapter 3 and onward will be more of the same.
I and many others are willing and wanting to purchase more content to play our characters in, but not if we get to stand around waiting for borders/favor or become bot farmers... not fun.

Anyway, anyone have any other ideas on how to allow players access without turning them into bot farmers or forced competition? I'm out of thoughts on it.

dreamhunk · Apr 06, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

WasAGuest I agree with you 100% on this one. time will only tell what truely will happen

Cyril Aspect · Apr 06, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I've said this before. but I feel like repeating it.

This game has always been more competitive than others that are sort of related to it.

If you never liked competition I'm vonfused why you bought this game and not another. why not play neverwinter nights or somehting else that only rewards small groups of players.

I don't care if i never get to those elite missions its a ncie goal.

@ was a guest - if you only want it when its new and shiny it was never worth your effort. you don't go to those things saying you want the challenge and then later say you only want it when everyone else wants it.

WasAGuest · Apr 06, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

I've said this before. but I feel like repeating it.

This game has always been more competitive than others that are sort of related to it.

If you never liked competition I'm vonfused why you bought this game and not another. why not play neverwinter nights or somehting else that only rewards small groups of players.

Because it was advertised as an RPG when I bought it. The box itself said it focuses on the better thing in an RPG. While it did say there was PvP, it clearly didn't state that was the focus of the game play. Doing some research on the game, I found it to be less a level grinding type game (which coming from EQ after so many years was a breath of fresh air). It claimed to be a less time and more skill based style of play. All these things are being altered a great deal with Factions... which is why I have taken a wait and see with that Chapter.
I'm also confused on why someone who enjoys a real competitve game would play GW. Real e-sports games would have a better system at work as would the many hundreds of FPS out there.
We can refer other playstyles to other games all day and night, but that solves nothing, nor does it better the game we currently enjoy playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

I don't care if i never get to those elite missions its a ncie goal.

I do, as do many others, obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

@ was a guest - if you only want it when its new and shiny it was never worth your effort. you don't go to those things saying you want the challenge and then later say you only want it when everyone else wants it.

So, when someone buys something new they shouldn't expect to enjoy it while it's new? They should wait till everyone in the huge alliances moves on (in this example) to enjoy Chapter 3? In two or three years down the line, should everyone still be "pumped" to go play in SF or finish the Titan Quests?

Your argument makes no since at all to me. If you read the entire post of mine, you'd understand that it's not just me that is like that. Once an area become void of people, for whatever reason (new content being added being the example used here), getting a group together is harder and won't be worth the effort; since anyone can get into a group easier where the other people will be at... the newer content, or Chapter 3 in this example. The only argument that can be brought up here is go with guildies. If this were brought up, then that's saying everyone's guilds will be hanging around the old content. I can only see this happening if no one buys the new content.

Scroll up and see the EQ example given if I wasn't clear. I think I am though... not always the best at getting what's in my head onto "paper".

Though I appreciate the post and opinion given, it's way off topic. The play style; RPG as advertised by Anet, or PvP as the game seems to be leaning towards, isn't the issue at hand here. If it were, we would just have yet another tiring PvE vs PvP thread with each side flaming each other over and over. My tail is still warm from the last cooking I got weeks ago

At this point we are working on ideas to make the Factions elite missions and drops (if the ideas posted thus far don't agree) more fun for everyone.

If Anet was to open up the areas in question, are you saying you would not go to them cause you don't care to get in them? Or would you head there and enjoy the content? I would imagine the second, which is why I care that it is closed off. Not just for my sake, but for anyone who might enjoy the content but will be put off by it's current design.

MSecorsky · Apr 06, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Shouldn't this argument be shelved until we all know what the hell we're talking about?

Scorpio83 · Apr 06, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Ive seen lots of posts in here saying small guilds are made of pals and like to and dont want to get bigger but getting big dont mean loseing pals not all the players i know anyway it means makeing more. I first started in a small guild so i know and i am in a guild that has about 50 players in it and i know most of them and were all pals and it not size that counts thow its how hard your guild works but there are things that may be wrong with faction ponits that you can see but you can not know how it will work fully till Anet shows us and if somthing doss go wrong with they way it works i am shure they will fix it fast i mean somthing like this is big.

WasAGuest · Apr 07, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Shouldn't this argument be shelved until we all know what the hell we're talking about?

Actually, trying to keep it from being an argument and trying to get good ideas from improving what we saw in the FPE. Lots of players didn't like what we saw nor the general direction the game seems to be going towards. So, we're looking for ideas rather than arguments.
Since this was based off of the FPE and isn't really a suggestion as of yet, it remains here rather than in Sanitarium or Riverside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio83

Ive seen lots of posts in here saying small guilds are made of pals and like to and dont want to get bigger but getting big dont mean loseing pals not all the players i know anyway it means makeing more. I first started in a small guild so i know and i am in a guild that has about 50 players in it and i know most of them and were all pals and it not size that counts thow its how hard your guild works but there are things that may be wrong with faction ponits that you can see but you can not know how it will work fully till Anet shows us and if somthing doss go wrong with they way it works i am shure they will fix it fast i mean somthing like this is big.

I've not seen anyone say they didn't want to join a bigger guild or an alliance. I have seen people say that because of the system we saw at work in the FPE, being in a small guild or alliance makes the game's content unavailble to them.
The need for almost non-stop farming and the "seriousness" of some players does turn away some more casual players though.
I had rescently brought up the issue of joining or recruiting for an alliance within my guild. The answer was a universal "only if...".

Only if I'm not expected to farm non-stop. Only if I'm not expected to hold everyone's hand all the time. Only if I'm not expected to play PvP. Only if I don't have to gather greens for other's. Only if I'm not expected to... The list went on and on.
I laughed and had to say "Sorry I asked". Though, I agreed with many of the points.
Being in such a relaxed guild is wonderfully nice and from time to time, we've had members come and go that did expect this kind of treatment from their guild.
I've also been in a rather large guild in EQ. I left that one and joined a smaller one before I left the game (guilds will remain nameless - shhh I'm hiding

). I did prefer the smaller one though as we were closer and much more friendly to each other.

mqstout · Apr 07, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

"This game has always been more competitive than others that are sort of related to it."

I've had nearly zero competition. I tried PvP, hated it. It's entirely possible, and probable, to play GW:P without any competition whatsoever.

Gli · Apr 07, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

"This game has always been more competitive than others that are sort of related to it."

I've had nearly zero competition. I tried PvP, hated it. It's entirely possible, and probable, to play GW:P without any competition whatsoever.

Actually, GW has been the least competitive game in its genre that I ever played, as far as the PvE part goes. It's ALL cooperation, without even the need to race to a stupendously hard to reach level.

Cyril Aspect · Apr 07, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Because it was advertised as an RPG when I bought it. The box itself said it focuses on the better thing in an RPG. While it did say there was PvP, it clearly didn't state that was the focus of the game play. Doing some research on the game, I found it to be less a level grinding type game (which coming from EQ after so many years was a breath of fresh air). It claimed to be a less time and more skill based style of play. All these things are being altered a great deal with Factions... which is why I have taken a wait and see with that Chapter.
I'm also confused on why someone who enjoys a real competitve game would play GW. Real e-sports games would have a better system at work as would the many hundreds of FPS out there.
We can refer other playstyles to other games all day and night, but that solves nothing, nor does it better the game we currently enjoy playing.

I do, as do many others, obviously.

So, when someone buys something new they shouldn't expect to enjoy it while it's new? They should wait till everyone in the huge alliances moves on (in this example) to enjoy Chapter 3? In two or three years down the line, should everyone still be "pumped" to go play in SF or finish the Titan Quests?

Your argument makes no since at all to me. If you read the entire post of mine, you'd understand that it's not just me that is like that. Once an area become void of people, for whatever reason (new content being added being the example used here), getting a group together is harder and won't be worth the effort; since anyone can get into a group easier where the other people will be at... the newer content, or Chapter 3 in this example. The only argument that can be brought up here is go with guildies. If this were brought up, then that's saying everyone's guilds will be hanging around the old content. I can only see this happening if no one buys the new content.

Scroll up and see the EQ example given if I wasn't clear. I think I am though... not always the best at getting what's in my head onto "paper".

Though I appreciate the post and opinion given, it's way off topic. The play style; RPG as advertised by Anet, or PvP as the game seems to be leaning towards, isn't the issue at hand here. If it were, we would just have yet another tiring PvE vs PvP thread with each side flaming each other over and over. My tail is still warm from the last cooking I got weeks ago

At this point we are working on ideas to make the Factions elite missions and drops (if the ideas posted thus far don't agree) more fun for everyone.

If Anet was to open up the areas in question, are you saying you would not go to them cause you don't care to get in them? Or would you head there and enjoy the content? I would imagine the second, which is why I care that it is closed off. Not just for my sake, but for anyone who might enjoy the content but will be put off by it's current design.

What I was saying which may or may not be what you meant was that it seems as though you stated that it was basically the reason to play it was because it was new. this seems a bit weird to me, I mean oyu either like the game or you don't but its age shouldn't really affect your desire to try mission because if it does then it would seem to me that you didn't really like the game but merely the newness of it.

I won't stop playing porphecies because fewer people are there. I'll have some guildies and grab a hench or two and enjoy myself just as much.

While I don't understand your viewpoint on differing playstyles(as i am someone who likes all play styles) I do understand that it is your separate opinion odd as it may seem to me.

I would like to laugh at one comment you can't refer me to another competitive game. This is th emost balanced competitive game in the fantasy genre I have ever played. It is th eonly one that rewards competition and is not horribly unbalanced. There is no other game to play if you want to play this sort of pvp

My point about referring other games is simply this. You don't buy an online Game thats massively multi player unless you want massive numbers of people and a large game with the variety to support all those people.

If you really like Pve but you don't like leveling and there are no uber items to get then I am left wondering what you play this game for(not a flame just a question.)

Also one final thought, if you pay 50$ for a game and you don't get to see one portion of it but you still played it for 25-30 hours didn't you get your mones worth? I'm not knocking your wait and see policy I'm just questioning it since you seem to like a lot of the games features but have an issue with one small thing.

It seems like you will be doing yourself a dissservice by not picking it up but again it is your choice.

Cyril Aspect · Apr 07, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Actually, trying to keep it from being an argument and trying to get good ideas from improving what we saw in the FPE. Lots of players didn't like what we saw nor the general direction the game seems to be going towards. So, we're looking for ideas rather than arguments.
Since this was based off of the FPE and isn't really a suggestion as of yet, it remains here rather than in Sanitarium or Riverside.

I've not seen anyone say they didn't want to join a bigger guild or an alliance. I have seen people say that because of the system we saw at work in the FPE, being in a small guild or alliance makes the game's content unavailble to them.
The need for almost non-stop farming and the "seriousness" of some players does turn away some more casual players though.
I had rescently brought up the issue of joining or recruiting for an alliance within my guild. The answer was a universal "only if...".

Only if I'm not expected to farm non-stop. Only if I'm not expected to hold everyone's hand all the time. Only if I'm not expected to play PvP. Only if I don't have to gather greens for other's. Only if I'm not expected to... The list went on and on.
I laughed and had to say "Sorry I asked". Though, I agreed with many of the points.
Being in such a relaxed guild is wonderfully nice and from time to time, we've had members come and go that did expect this kind of treatment from their guild.
I've also been in a rather large guild in EQ. I left that one and joined a smaller one before I left the game (guilds will remain nameless - shhh I'm hiding

). I did prefer the smaller one though as we were closer and much more friendly to each other.

actually we have seen people say they won't join large alliances and othe rpeople who don't even like guilds have chimed in. not all content is for all people. those who hate PvP are you pissed because a large portion of the game occurs in a playstyle you dislike?

its the same issue. does the game bring you what you like while bringing as many other people what they like as well. thats the way to make a game suceed. mass marketing FTW