Curse

Elrodien · Jan 16, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Maybe we will see some changes on friday when we get our first look at the battle isles??

art_ · Jan 16, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

Yeah, you can find eles in plenty of builds - we have a fall-back build (the build we play when our test builds aren't working out and we feel like a good run) that runs 2 eles.
You'll see plenty of people run earth, principally for wards, with a spattering or fire, and the odd air. There's obsidian flame spike teams running around still. Clever teams can use water eles.

Yeah my team got beaten by a really good rainbow spike (i think mainly obs + blood, coming off pp + shatter delusions) on one of the relic runs yesterday. Even though there are places for Eles, i think its probably fair to say IWAY is the thing to do if you are new. I mean you can rank up IWAYing in no time and i don't buy this 'rank 6 by IWAY = no skill or understanding of pvp.' If you've hit r6 IWAYing you must have had some skill to get consecutives. I find it hard to believe somebody could get to r6 without ever getting past the first few rounds.

Kate Bloodspirit · Jan 22, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

The problem I see with IWAY and IWAY players is not their ability to win/hold, but the fact that you can ask them what else can they play and for sure they will say they are good at everything else as well, but things are much different in once tombs.

I think rank means more than your win/lose ratio, more like an indicator of how much you understand the game in dept and how able are you to play any given set of skills.

Anyways, back to the thread, if you're frustrated with tombs, the best solution is to make your own groups. Regardless of the build you run, if you come up with 1 person every other run, that is competent in different roles and is personally appealing, then you'll be truly be in the path to the hall of heroes.

Jan 23, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate Bloodspirit

The problem I see with IWAY and IWAY players is not their ability to win/hold, but the fact that you can ask them what else can they play and for sure they will say they are good at everything else as well, but things are much different in once tombs.

I think rank means more than your win/lose ratio, more like an indicator of how much you understand the game in dept and how able are you to play any given set of skills.

Anyways, back to the thread, if you're frustrated with tombs, the best solution is to make your own groups. Regardless of the build you run, if you come up with 1 person every other run, that is competent in different roles and is personally appealing, then you'll be truly be in the path to the hall of heroes.

Although my views on fame/rank are a bit different then yours I do agree with the points you made...Although fame/rank in a way is how much u are loged on for I definatly agree about your statement....apart from that make ya own team is good way...and get on that big vent and be nice to people

maraxusofk · Jan 24, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I recentally reached r3. How u may ask? Well a combo of doing every build (including iway) got me there. To get r3 basically u join lots of pug groups until u find a good group and stick wit them for lots of fame. Its pretty sad that this takes around 100 hours nowadays but if u really want r3 ull stick thru the grind. Still kinda sad though........................

Once u get r3 join a good pvp or gvg guild and develop some new builds (im sick of fighting or using iway)

EternalTempest · Jan 24, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

The more I read about Hero's Ascent (no longer tombs

), the more it makes me want to avoid it. I did create a monk so I should be able to get in to more parties TA for example and more wanted in PvE. I'm going to give Hero's Ascent a try and see, I will sell myself honestly X type monk lfg, willing to change build and follow orders, learning tombs and see if I get any takers.

If not, I can only play an hour to 2 hours a day at most, I'll end up avoiding it.

I have poor leadership skills so starting my own group(s) tend not to go well but I'm very good at taking orders.

glenn_rolfe · Jan 24, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I'll never get people who start doing something, like tombs, and go
"I can't get rank 3 because my teams suck"

Well what do you expect. You're new, you ain't gonna win very often. Yo're gonna suck. Even though you think you don't you do suck, you really do suck.

I remember thinking I was a good player when I ventured into tombs, but I sucked, I did. And now I'm a hero to so many people.

Yabba · Jan 24, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

I mean you can rank up IWAYing in no time and i don't buy this 'rank 6 by IWAY = no skill or understanding of pvp.' If you've hit r6 IWAYing you must have had some skill to get consecutives. I find it hard to believe somebody could get to r6 without ever getting past the first few rounds.

hmm, let`s see.

winning with iway maps 1-3. that`s 6 fame in about 20 mins.
18 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 54 fame every day you play.

20 days = rank 6

winning only underground. 1 fame in about 5 mins = 12 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 36 fame every day.

28 days = rank 6

so, yes, you can be a total pvp noob and be rank 6.

you can do it with balanced teams too. but balanced teams usually need about 4-10 mins to win a fight (not 2-3 like iway)and you need much more effort and teamplay to win with a balanced team.
And if a monk leaves group or a mesmer you`ll have to spend much time to find a replacement.
For iway you can get people in about 5 mins ...

glenn_rolfe · Jan 24, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yabba

hmm, let`s see.

winning with iway maps 1-3. that`s 6 fame in about 20 mins.
18 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 54 fame every day you play.

20 days = rank 6

winning only underground. 1 fame in about 5 mins = 12 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 36 fame every day.

28 days = rank 6

so, yes, you can be a total pvp noob and be rank 6.

you can do it with balanced teams too. but balanced teams usually need about 4-10 mins to win a fight (not 2-3 like iway)and you need much more effort and teamplay to win with a balanced team.
And if a monk leaves group or a mesmer you`ll have to spend much time to find a replacement.
For iway you can get people in about 5 mins ...

It's a good overall point. (Though the 2nd calculation doesn't take into account losing on the buirial mounds, so 28 days is more like 2 months). And 2 months to rank 6 is the norm for people playing balanced groups in tombs.

So yeah, your point is absolutely valid. It's cheap fame.

IWAY is the only build that evolves at the rate of a turtle. When we lose, we look at our playing style, calling, in game habits, and build - and try and fix. IWAY just pushes enter and starts again. It's basically PvE to them. Instead of farming griffons they're farming nubs. I can't see how any IWAY player can call themself a good playing just beating nubs all the time.

art_ · Jan 24, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yabba

hmm, let`s see.

winning with iway maps 1-3. that`s 6 fame in about 20 mins.
18 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 54 fame every day you play.

20 days = rank 6

winning only underground. 1 fame in about 5 mins = 12 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 36 fame every day.

28 days = rank 6

so, yes, you can be a total pvp noob and be rank 6.

you can do it with balanced teams too. but balanced teams usually need about 4-10 mins to win a fight (not 2-3 like iway)and you need much more effort and teamplay to win with a balanced team.
And if a monk leaves group or a mesmer you`ll have to spend much time to find a replacement.
For iway you can get people in about 5 mins ...

Mkay, not to get sidetracked or anything, but i do disagree with that.

Quote:

winning with iway maps 1-3. that`s 6 fame in about 20 mins.
18 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 54 fame every day you play.

Lets assume these fame farmers are pve-ers, they aren't gonna be going into r3 + grp until they are r3. Chance of success over the first 3 maps under r3? probably quite low.

Quote:

winning only underground

*i think you mean underworld*

. 1 fame in about 5 mins = 12 fame per hour.
do it for 3 hours = 36 fame every day.

28 days = rank 6

so, yes, you can be a total pvp noob and be rank 6.

yeah 1 fame in 5 minutes just isnt realistic.

EDIT: People don't quit after r1, go back to base an hit enter mission again.... or do they :S

say it isn't so

The players who will be ranking at the above speed are those who have proved themselves as decent and so have a friendslist of players to go with. If they are decent players, chances are they will want to expand from IWAY asap as, imo, playing only IWAY would be very dull.

Im afraid i just cant picture people farming fame with IWAY to r6. I think it would get monotonous. Maybe if they were constantly adjusting the build, and actually hoped to win HoH i could see it, but just hitting --> enter mission flawless win, win, lose; for hundreds of fame i cant see really happening.

Maybe it does, and im naive, but i dont think there are many people who 'farm' fame beyond r3.

Bleh, even if IWAY is nerfed, people will find a new build that is easy to run to a mediocre standard. Its not that IWAY is bad, its that its the easiest learning curve for newbies and also, unfortunately, the best option for poor players. That does not, of course, preclude that poor players are the only ones who play IWAY.

Anyhow, i'm rambling so i better stfu

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

It's cheap fame.

Tbh, if you are a competitve player you will not want to be stuck for ages in balanced groups which take ages to form and are full of first-timer 'casual' players who are crap at pve let alone pvp. Cheap fame with IWAY is an obvious way out of that.[QUOTE]

Quote:

IWAY is the only build that evolves at the rate of a turtle. When we lose, we look at our playing style, calling, in game habits, and build - and try and fix. IWAY just pushes enter and starts again.

Hmm. Yes many groups are like this, but not all i dont think. I do agree tho, you'd think the build would've evolved more against the many counters people bring.

Quote:

It's basically PvE to them. Instead of farming griffons they're farming nubs. I can't see how any IWAY player can call themself a good playing just beating nubs all the time.

Again, remember that IWAY *does* win HoH and beat good balanced builds.

Regarding the 'farming' groups, the real problem imo, is seperating the prestige (emotes et al) seeker IWAY farmer, and people who are just looking for a way into the pvp scene.

wheel · Jan 24, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

Maybe it does, and im naive, but i dont think there are many people who 'farm' fame beyond r3.

If that was true, you would not see any R6+ IWAY LFG, etc.

art_ · Jan 24, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

If that was true, you would not see any R6+ IWAY LFG, etc.

Perhaps these groups think they have a chance of winning HoH.

tafy69 · Jan 24, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

Perhaps these groups think they have a chance of winning HoH.

No its because their on their way to farming for a tiger, then they can join Math and farm for the pheonix.

Just take a look at Meatball

art_ · Jan 24, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

No its because their on their way to farming for a tiger, then they can join Math and farm for the pheonix.

Just take a look at Meatball

ouch.

ShotGunBunny · Jan 24, 2006, 10:30 AM // 10:30

First lemme say this: The people who are waiting AT THE TOMB ENTRANCE are only looking for an IWAY group and for some quick fame/have false ambitions of getting into HoH, (although IWAY's can work just as good as any other build, mind you)

You should try getting a decent pvp guild first of all, i'm currently out of a guild too(got kicked out of mine/was disbanded, i was gone for a while) or else you should jusst get some friends.

Simply: if you dont want IWAY, you're not gonna have much luck with PUG's and those few brave people who try often fail completely.

I'm not having any problems with getting any groups because of low rank though.

However, you shouldn't give up on IWAY, it may attract morons and it's..."accident prone" but with some luck you can get decent groups together, that's actually what it's all about you know, how good you group as a whole and individualy is, not how "good" the build is.
I've had some very fun times in IWAY groups, more perhaps then in others, because, i think, they're all bent on winning, in an IWAY everybody is less serious, i think, although that might be bad, to an extent it is good, it's still a game after all.

tafy69 · Jan 24, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Oh before i get flamed to death by you iway lovers...

I didnt mind the build when it used by new players or a few players who may be a bit bored and want a quick team.

But now its turned into a monster of a problem for tombs, pugs hardly exist anymore unless its IWAY, which means even more people play it. Then you have whole guilds dedicated to run it 12 hours a day

All new builds that doesnt include a oath trapper and a warder and a warrior can forget it, even if the build has this a few mistakes and the whole team is wiped out (Hence reason teams dont take pugs and why pugs get steamrolled)

Oh and before someone calls me a scrub, Iway isnt the best build for talanted players.

Xasew · Jan 24, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Ritualists are perfect IWAY counters, I think it'll get easier when Factions comes out.

Ado · Jan 24, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

The discussion about IWAY is similair to that of farming griffons. There are ppl who don't like it cause it's free fame/quick cash, and others who like it cause it's quick. 5 min to get into a party/10-50k in an hour of farming. Me personally also like to play in a more "complex" build". But sometimes it takes ages to get in a party and to make things worse, after a single lose, the party often disbands again, having to search for a new group. On the rare ocassion that I play IWAY, it's not for the fame but just for the fact I wanna play and not spamming for hours LFG.

Edit: I like to play any type of mesmer (accept resmer), if you're lookin for a mesmer plz message me ingame. IGN Ado Magix

Yabba · Jan 24, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

(Though the 2nd calculation doesn't take into account losing on the buirial mounds, so 28 days is more like 2 months).

argh, yes, it was late and i forgot the burial in the 2nd calculation.
so it`s 1 fame every 8-9 mins. 6-7 fame an hour. 18-21 fame for 3 hours.

must be somewhere about 1,5 and 2 months for rank 6 by just winning underworld.

Quote:

IWAY is the only build that evolves at the rate of a turtle. When we lose, we look at our playing style, calling, in game habits, and build - and try and fix. IWAY just pushes enter and starts again. It's basically PvE to them. Instead of farming griffons they're farming nubs. I can't see how any IWAY player can call themself a good playing just beating nubs all the time.

i fully agree with you

(though iway doesn´t beat noobs only but sometimes even good teams that don´t keep fighting totally concentrated through the whole match)

Fantus · Jan 24, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

But now its turned into a monster of a problem for tombs, pugs hardly exist anymore unless its IWAY, which means even more people play it.

Quoted for truth!

Honestly, I don't mind IWAY as a build, but its presence in HA has gone wildly over the top. Around 90%-95% of all LFG and GLF messages in chat is about IWAY nowadays. PUGs don't run anything but IWAY (90%) and counter-IWAY (10%) anymore. Since IWAY is easier to run and set up as counter-IWAY, even MORE people are converted to use it every day. Hell, people are pretty much FORCED to play IWAY because almost all groups are running it - and it's even hard to fill your groups with players if you try to set up anything but IWAY.