Curse

glenn_rolfe · Nov 27, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I want to reiterate once again.. that tombs is a competition. In order to be successful, you have to beat other people. To get any decent amount of fame, your team has to be better than most of the other people playing at the same time. If you're not willing or able to do that, then you're going to have a problem gaining fame. That's 'elitest' in nature. The even playing field talk, and fair play, and 'beginner tombs' and the like.. you guys are in denial. You want a lot of fame, be better than 95% of the other people playing. It's really that simple.

Couldn't agree more. When you hit the Underworld map 1 team will win, 1 team will lose. Rinse and repeat for 2 more maps. Then scared earth, 4 teams go in, 1 comes out. And so on.

If you want to get somewhere you will have to develop overall skills in multiple lines and stop advertising rubbish like you're an R6 trapper. Advertise that you can play mulitple characters like "LFG can play all types of ranger, mesmer, necro, and monk"

One more bit of advice, if you really are struggling to get in a group, learn how to monk properly. God knows the game needs some more good ones (I should talk, I'm a crap monk)

Y.T. · Nov 27, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

I can see your point. However, if you are 7 people who know the maps, does it really hurt that much to take one person along, who doesn't?

I have 1,500 hours of GW experience (yes, from PvE mostly). I have played PvP in Arenas (got like 25k of faction). Yet I don't have a rank, since I didn't play much in Tombs so far. Since I seem to have done everything else in GW I started Tombsing lately. Can you remotely imagine how it's like to be a "new" player in Tombs? The only groups who are ever going to take me into their teams are the PRPUGs (purely random pick up group) where they send blind invites out to get a full group together quickly. Every once in a while one of those blind invites will hit my mesmer, too. Can you imagine that I am actually desperate enough to accept those? Yes, I am. Otherwise I could spam "LFG" for all enternity, it would seem. Yes, those groups tend to be clueless. Usually 5 out of 8 people in such a group don't even understand target calling. Every once in a while we fight a team who is even more clueless than mine and I get a fame point. If I am lucky I will get to Rank 3 by mid 2006 this way. Cool. If this really is the way to get new players into PvP, I don't know...

Actually I don't want to play a Warrior in an IWAY group, you know. My main profession in PvP is a Mesmer. I know this profession inside out and have all skills unlocked for this class (including many possible support skills from secondary classes). Do I really have to go IWAY for 1 month so I can finally be a Mesmer again? Also, since I am coming from the PvE side of GW, I don't have a slot for a PvP char left and I don't feel like deleting one of my toons all of which have beaten the game. Actually Warrior and Necro are the 2 classes I don't have on that account. So, no IWAY for me, it seems.

As for my guild - I am in a PvE guild. The guys in that guild are my friends some of whom I have known for years, so leaving it for a PvP guild is NOT an option.

Well...

same

i got over 6mil exp on my account (have 4 pve chars, monk with about 3mil exp, ele with 1,5+mil exp and necro and mesmer), i'm afraid to tell u how many hours i've played

and i've played in all pve areas sooo many times so i started to think mb its time to play pvp. o well. and i'm in pve guild we're playin together for a long-long-long time, so quitting is out of option. and deleting 1 of my pve chars so i can make w/r and run iway is out of question too

i dont have rank 3 - cos sadly we dont have animation for our pve exp, only for pvp exp, and i cant get any rank for fraction point too - cant see why - but anyway - the only way to get into group is to play necro saccer or rezmer. usually it looks like that:
1. casting 25+ fiends per each mm - takes some time
2. smbdy finally notice that monk dosnt have heal area or dosnt know how to use it - minions are dieing, i saw monk casting healing breese on each minion once... scary
from here we have few options:
3a. evrbdy yells 'n00b monk' and leaves, and i go back to toa to spam 'saccer lfg' for 15 min then switch to rezmer
3b. we attack and with some struggling and calling names our monk manage to keep both mm alive - so we're killin helpless ghosts and evrbdy's happy
3c. we attack but monk still consentrated on minions, so mm dies, but this monk is dedicated healer lol so he/she keeps healing minions while they're killing him/her and the rest of the team. back in town half of team's askin 'what happened' and half's calling names.
3d. we got good monk but 1 of mm runs into ghosts and get killed anyway - the rest as in 3c

in case of 3b we're spawning on 1st arena. if we're playing against iway group evrbdy's cheering, if we're playing against eoe bomb ppl start yelling 'we're screwd' be4 1st teammate got attacked dosnt matter what - they saw the spirit of ext, and they think we're doomed.

i'm still on the ground looking pretty 'cos my mm dropped and we got warrior hench instead and nobody's using extra corpse

and thinking about returning to pve - after all it was soo easy to farm ecto/shards/rubies/saphires in fissure in wailing lord quest - same eoe bomb but only 12+ packs of mobs, they're only lvl 28, even stupid unranked n00b can do it on regular basis lol

Lorien of Mandos · Nov 27, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I am in the same boat with all of you other R3- players out there. I just started playing Pvp almost exclusively (read 90%+ of my GW time) and initially encountered the same frustration you all have so elegantly ranted about. Then I remembered something....this is a strategy game, which means that you have to think strategically to get an edge. If you are unwilling to get fame and rank by playing IWAY or other FOTM teams, invent a new one. Tired of waiting for a group to form, form your own.

Why should you get famous for running builds popularized by other players? Who deserves more praise: the orginal band that sells out stadiums or the sucky cover/tribute band that plays your local dive bar?? You can't expect people to just throw you on their team with no indication at all of your ability - thats akin to asking for a six figure salary job with no resume.

There are of course flaws with rank and fame, I will admit that. With so many people running cookie-cutter fotm builds this is bound to happen. The proposals put forth to deal with this issue, however, will not work. What you are ostensibly complaining about is elitism within GW, but really at the core, you are complaining about "human" nature (term used reservedly - see Daniel Quinn). Mod fame, lose it altogether...it won't matter. People will still find a way to be elitist snobs in tombs. The internet has been around a long time now, if you haven't yet realized that it brings out the worst in people then I pity you. Anonymity allows people to behave in their base form, and sadly most people behave very poorly at their base level - you just have to learn to deal with them.

The best advice has been given by other in prior posts - find a guild and/or a group of friends to do tombs with. If you are so familiar with the game you will remember from PvE that elitism was very present there as well and you probably adapted to that by finding a guild and some friends to do quests/missions with - why can't you do the same for PvP? How many times did you fail Thunderhead Keep with PUGs before resorting to guild mates?? Do you see a pattern yet? Why waste time and emotional well-being arguing with ppl that are forming R3+ PUGs for tombs when the same amount of invested time can get you a decent network of friends and guildies that you are familiar with to play tombs together and own all those silly buggers that really think rank means something. Let them be frustrated for having spent all that time forming an elitist group only to have their asses handed to them on a silver platter on the first map.

/end rant

dbgtboy · Nov 28, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Just IWAY your fame out, my guild iway group (MATH) makes around 100 fame per day with iway, on a bad day we make 50 fame and on a good day we make 200 fame, we win halls alot and have held the hoh for up to 5 games before (made over 100 fame in that run alone), the guild is only about 1 month old and almost all players are r8 now and close to r9. Just to mention, we make it to vault in nearly every single run we do and get at least 5 consecutives wins per run (we'd make much more if it wasnt for cheap jumps).

tomcruisejr · Nov 28, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtboy

Just IWAY your fame out, my guild iway group (MATH) makes around 100 fame per day with iway, on a bad day we make 50 fame and on a good day we make 200 fame, we win halls alot and have held the hoh for up to 5 games before (made over 100 fame in that run alone), the guild is only about 1 month old and almost all players are r8 now and close to r9. Just to mention, we make it to vault in nearly every single run we do and get at least 5 consecutives wins per run (we'd make much more if it wasnt for cheap jumps).

lol. lotsa details there eh, teh pwn..

scout here. woohoo.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 28, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Remind me to never PUG with guys from MATH if that's how you ranked up

tomcruisejr · Nov 28, 2005, 02:38 AM // 02:38

hey glenn_rolfe, if you want a rank 8 trapper, pm me. if you want a rank 8 mesmer, dont pm me.

mind you, we have lotsa members who are decent/great with balanced too.

/rank still a big deal to you? grow up. as long as that kinda mentality exists, these "cheap tricks" fotms will not die

glenn_rolfe · Nov 28, 2005, 04:46 AM // 04:46

So you're rank 8 and all you can play is trapper?? That's a bit sad.
Man, you are missing out on a lot of fun.

tomcruisejr · Nov 28, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

So you're rank 8 and all you can play is trapper?? That's a bit sad.
Man, you are missing out on a lot of fun.

<<< Mesmer/Necromancer. Making builds. Can use the Interrupt Hexes Very Well. Avid fan of Interrupt Based Shutdown.

all im saying that I wont tell a group that i'm a rank 8 mesmer... i got my rank as a trapper and i will not join a pick up group looking for a rank 8 mesmer..

the tombs mesmer? mindless mindwrack, energy burn, energy surge spamming... that's lame mesmering. thats worse than pve mesmering..

Sephir Demange · Nov 28, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Listen, the whole point is moot. It comes down to being this: No one wants to play with someone who is on a level of playing that drags him down. No one. So you are a good player? Then go get into any random group you want. Go with the people struggling to do something new, or something more challenging for you. Just play often and with a bunch of different people. If you see someone doing something well, engage them in a little conversation. Most players are willing to tell you what they do, and why it works for them. That is how you learn, and that is even more fundamental than the rank system is. Rank 6 or 9 is supposed to tell your team mates "Hey, I learned a bit on my way up here, I know what these skills are for, and I know what this equipment does." Also, there are several types of groups that end up in tombs. There are the PvE people who have no idea what it is and jump in to see what it is, there are the people trying to break into PvP, there are a the decent players pounding the keys to get to rank 9, and then there are the truly talented, or at the very least commited, that spend most of their time testing out new stuff. Now to the point; Why appluad an ability to toss out the roughly 60% or so teams that either don't know what tombs even is or are just starting out in PvP? I personally enjoy playing with a character who knows their classes well and I, in turn, can learn something and therefor be valuable in yet another position on the field. Playing IWAY constantly which involves a very limited number of roles to fill, severly cuts short your learning ability. : P Just one guys opinion.

Patrograd · Nov 28, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

<<< Mesmer/Necromancer. Making builds. Can use the Interrupt Hexes Very Well. Avid fan of Interrupt Based Shutdown.

all im saying that I wont tell a group that i'm a rank 8 mesmer... i got my rank as a trapper and i will not join a pick up group looking for a rank 8 mesmer..

the tombs mesmer? mindless mindwrack, energy burn, energy surge spamming... that's lame mesmering. thats worse than pve mesmering..

if you are rank 8 then you have played against enough good mesmers to know what skills are most effective in most situations and in what combinations. You understand the effects for example of energy denial on the enemy team and how to achieve it, or in what corcumstances and builds illusion based degen is the way to go. You understand the counters to the various mesmer skills Given a little practise in arenas to get to grips with the skillbar I'm sure you wouldnt disappoint anyone as a rank 8 mesmer, even with little or no tombs mesmer experience.

Isnt this the point of rank? At Rank 8 you have won an insane amount of battles, faced and defeated all kinds of builds, seen good and bad opponents of every class and have a good understanding of the skills across all classes. Assuming you've been paying attention that is :-)

DaHun · Nov 28, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

The only solution i've found to this was...join a guild.

lishi · Nov 28, 2005, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtboy

Just IWAY your fame out, my guild iway group (MATH) makes around 100 fame per day with iway, on a bad day we make 50 fame and on a good day we make 200 fame, we win halls alot and have held the hoh for up to 5 games before (made over 100 fame in that run alone), the guild is only about 1 month old and almost all players are r8 now and close to r9. Just to mention, we make it to vault in nearly every single run we do and get at least 5 consecutives wins per run (we'd make much more if it wasnt for cheap jumps).

just for curiosity how you reached near 150 position in ladder oO?

not with iway i hope :P

tafy69 · Nov 28, 2005, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I must say math teachers run a good iway, very good iway gj

Elrodien · Nov 28, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Well, I guess this one is going to run and run.....the haves vs the have nots. The haves think there is nothing wrong with the system and the have nots think the system needs to be changed to acommodate them.

I'm on the side of the revolutionary myself, but I can't see anything changing anytime soon, until Chapter 2 arrives anyway.

Play Championship Manager instead until Chapter 2 arrives..........

jules · Nov 28, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

There's nothing wrong with IWAY. It's developed this bad reputation just because it's easy for a mediocre team to pick it up and defeat a better team that's not prepared for it. It is very beatable if you're prepared for it. No I don't play IWAY but I don't think you're a noob if you play it, although I have to say 90% of teams who play IWAY just grab a PUG go in without tactics...apart from spirits, tainted, orders, hack and slash, IWAY, hack and slash.

Props to MATH for running a decent IWAY build that manages to hold HoH.

Kabale · Nov 28, 2005, 01:21 PM // 13:21

MATH does run good IWAY, we see them a lot in Halls.

Heh, I think a lot of them hate me too cos I'm always the bonder that they're so desperate to kill xD

Manfred · Nov 28, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I dunno... IWAY is ok, but i think that what makes the build shine is just having 6 warriors pounding away with 2 orders on them. Iway is a footnote to the 60 dmg hits that warriors dish out every time.

Sephir Demange · Nov 28, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Guys, this is a tombs frustration thread, not an IWAY thread.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 28, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

well I for one am not frustrated with tombs, there's some cool people playing some really nice builds at the moment

Shut down and energy denail are back, it's good to see