Curse

The Muffen Man · Apr 10, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Yeah female warriors had a problem with the animation when using hammers it was out of sink, but I think its been fixed now.

Shatterstone · Apr 10, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

i think we will see a good deal more earthshakers coupled with the new ranger skill brambles. makes earthshaker into a nice little aoe bleeding attack.

nebuchanezzar · Apr 11, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Earthshakers AoE is pitiful imo. I think the trolls in Snake Dance etc get some double radius cuz it doesnt seem to hit that far. It also requires a hit. Unlike the rest of the hammer KDs it doesnt say it but does. Also the AoE is from your target not centered on you .. I think, been a while since I used it. Used to use DHammer a lot. How do you get that DHammer or Bash etc is a 3 sec kd with stoneskins gloves..I thought KD was 1 sec then the gloves would add one. Just a guess on my part but gale seems to kd longer than anything but Backbreaker. Whether you want to go for the Backbreaker kill combo or chain KDs with DHammer to Hammer Bash is preference imo.

Murder In China · Apr 11, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Knockdown = 2 seconds on you butt. Wearing Stonefist add an extra second, but you won't be able to keep an enemy on their ass for more than 3 seconds.

projectnavi · Apr 11, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

one thing that hasnt been mention i think is the fact that with the now pretty often seen spike group in gvg (be it eighter FC spike, ranger spike and whatnot) earth shaker will really make a big difference.

spike teams, however careful, will always have a few targets close enough to get in the AoE range of a carefully placed earthshaker.

i've seen it and done it more than once, and not only on teams that suck. even if you get only two ppl down with earth shaker, its gonna hurt their spike alot.

of course, on single target, backbreaker is more efficient. but you never know what you are going to face.

Dzan · Apr 11, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Earthshaker is garbage unless you can consistently hit more than 2 people with it, which is very unlikely. I'll stick with Backbreaker or Dev Hammer.

Jagflame · Apr 11, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Knockdown = 2 seconds on you butt. Wearing Stonefist add an extra second, but you won't be able to keep an enemy on their ass for more than 3 seconds.

Wrong. Backbreaker knocks down an enemy for 4 seconds.

Foppe · Apr 11, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

He's talking about an average kd, like from a devastating or earth shaker.

JR · Apr 11, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppe

He's talking about an average kd, like from a devastating or earth shaker.

He made a generalisation that was wrong.

glountz · Apr 11, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

My 2 cents
IMO:
Backbreaker > Earth shaker+Bash> Devastating + Heavy.

EarthShaker-Bash doesn't rely on a condition to work. In High PvP, that matters. A lot. Martyr/Mend/whatever and forget your Devastating+Heavy KD chain.
Dev+Heav deals a little more damage thanks to Heavy.
But in GvG/HA, adjacent opponents are common, more than in 4v4. When you manage to disrupt 2-3 people in one hit for 2 secs, it's nasty.
However, Backbreaker is to my mind the best Hammer Elite.

SaintGreg · Apr 11, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

But in GvG/HA, adjacent opponents are common

Pretty much just HA. In gvg, nearby yes, it often happens that 2 or 3 people will get hit by a deep freeze when they aren't paying close enough attention. But almost never will even 2 people get hit when adjacent.

You can't really wait for the perfect time to use earth shaker either, because you waste time and adrenaline - you might as well just use backbreaker for the additional damage and knockdown length.

wheel · Apr 11, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

My 2 cents
IMO:
Backbreaker > Earth shaker+Bash> Devastating + Heavy.

EarthShaker-Bash doesn't rely on a condition to work. In High PvP, that matters. A lot. Martyr/Mend/whatever and forget your Devastating+Heavy KD chain.
Dev+Heav deals a little more damage thanks to Heavy.
But in GvG/HA, adjacent opponents are common, more than in 4v4. When you manage to disrupt 2-3 people in one hit for 2 secs, it's nasty.
However, Backbreaker is to my mind the best Hammer Elite.

Running Heavy is idiotic. Hammer Bash is far superior to Heavy Blow. Just because there's weakness caused by Devastating Hammer doesn't mean that you should use Heavy Blow. You're making an argument for one skill combo over another that does not matter. You're not going to be using hammer bash on both builds. The argument is faulty.

projectnavi · Apr 11, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Earthshaker is garbage unless you can consistently hit more than 2 people with it, which is very unlikely. I'll stick with Backbreaker or Dev Hammer.

well garbage is a bit strong, to say the least.

i wouldnt bring it in 4vs4, but in gvg, its a very viable options in many situations.

Vindexus · Apr 11, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I've Earthshakered two monks at once and since they were both knocked down by Earthshaker, gg.

It really all depends on the team build.

JR · Apr 12, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I've Earthshakered two monks at once and since they were both knocked down by Earthshaker, gg.

It really all depends on the team build.

Indeed. And watch Bloodlight Eyes in one of the games vs Char, where he KD's both monks and the guild theif with Earthshaker while the Char split is retreating out of EvIL's base. With a little more in the way of snaring that could have been devastating for Char.

(pun intended)

RotteN · Apr 12, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

earthshaker is nice in confined spaces (like the lord room exit) but i still prefer backbreaker

glountz · Apr 12, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Running Heavy is idiotic. Hammer Bash is far superior to Heavy Blow.

You're wrong. Heavy Blow have the same AD requirements than Bash, but deals +32 damage at 16 Hammer mastery. Bash doesn't add any damage boost.
But Heavy needs weakness, yeah. So it is more conditionnal than Bash and less used with all this cond removal in the metagame.
I don't agree Bash>>>>>>Heavy.
Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

You're not going to be using hammer bash on both builds

I think you meant Heavy Blow.

JR · Apr 12, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

You're wrong. Heavy Blow have the same AD requirements than Bash, but deals +32 damage at 16 Hammer mastery. Bash doesn't add any damage boost.
But Heavy needs weakness, yeah. So it is more conditionnal than Bash and less used with all this cond removal in the metagame.
I don't agree Bash>>>>>>Heavy.

The knockdown is far more important that the damage, in my opinion. The ability to charge Bash and then be able to use it on any target (say for example your original target dies to Devastating -> Crushing with the assistance from your team) makes it far outweigh the advantage of the +32 damage.

glountz · Apr 12, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The knockdown is far more important that the damage, in my opinion. The ability to charge Bash and then be able to use it on any target (say for example your original target dies to Devastating -> Crushing with the assistance from your team) makes it far outweigh the advantage of the +32 damage.

Yep, I agree. But this case doesn't always happen . And +32 damage KDing blow is somewhat a great finisher. I would use this only in 4v4, though.
In addition, if your case happens, well, you simply don't use Heavy 'til Dev is ready. 7 AD is not so hard to achieve, especially if you didn't reset your AD through Heavy.
I don't defend Devastating or Heavy here, I don't use them myself in 8v8 (and rarely to never in 4v4).

What I'm saying is that there is no point using Devastating if you don't use Heavy.
I wonder why you would choose Dev+Bash over Earth+Bash. As a warrior you hunt casters generally, weakness is not a condition so valuable for you to spread. For 1 more AD, I find Earthshaker quite more devastating than.... Devastating.

To finish, Backbreaker seems too much valuable IMO, even more than Earth+Bash. I use Backbreaker with Irresistable, Crushing, Frenzy and "To the limit".
With no AD-loosing KD (like Bash), and IAS + AD boost, Backbreaker is ready pretty more often you would bet. And when it lands, that hurts badly.

Greedy Gus · Apr 12, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

What I'm saying is that there is no point using Devastating if you don't use Heavy.

Have you never watched the top 100 on observer mode, or read any hammer discussion topics over the last 6-8 months? Devastating has always been used, and combo'ed with bash if it fit on the bar. The reason to use devastating hammer is that it's the lowest adrenaline cost elite KD: can be used every 7 hits if not chained with bash.

You use bash over heavy because it's more flexible, and is useful even if your dev. misses, the weakness gets removed, or you kill the target and want to KD someone else. You use Backbreaker if you want the extra second and a bit of extra damage.

Earthshaker was almost never used in high level GvG (as far as I know), until a month or so after it got boosted to 8adren, and FnlD Warskull started making a few topics about it and using it. It's still rarely if ever used in GvG due to the infrequency of landing multiple KDs, while Devastating hammer is used often. Though in the past 2-3 months backbreaker has overtaken dev hammer in popularity.

Tired of reading horseshit in hammer threads.