Curse

Byron · May 20, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

It has been done before, but I've never seen a 3-mesmer build posted in these forums. This one is pretty standard, with some of my own tastes incorporated into it.

Posted, GWshack style:

--> 3-mesmer HA build <--

As usual, I hope the skills explain themselves. Comments and concerns are appreciated and respected (in most cases).

lishi · May 20, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

your entire build have only 2 hex , i dont see the point of migrane mesmer =\ it will get removed in 2 second feeding the monk energy using inspired hex

dare49devil · May 23, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Why would you have Healing Seed on the RC/Prot? Only one heal, spending 7 or so in healing?

Not needed, with your bar, max out prot, half and half in Divine/Inspiration.

Hex removal will be terrible with this build too.

You also only have 3 direct heals...Woh, Heal Other, and Orison. I feel your monks will have a hard time keeping up the heals.

Divineshadows · May 23, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

your entire build have only 2 hex , i dont see the point of migrane mesmer =\ it will get removed in 2 second feeding the monk energy using inspired hex

Yeah, migraine and conjure are inspired hex fodder for the enemy monks in an otherwise hexless build. With 3 memsers I was hoping for 3 cry of frustration. Power leak rocks and you should probably have a copy of it given that you have 3 mesmers. Your 3rd mesmer could be dom/insp just like the other two and use ward against foes from the secondary.

Healing seed on your RC/prot does not belong and I certainly would not sacrafice divine favor for healing prayers on this monk. I do not see any skills on your SB/infuse monk that synergize with channeling.

Vindexus · May 24, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I'd change dual attunes into Ether Prodigy on your fire ele because it's better for fueling extinguish. It would also open a skill slot for maybe a Draw Conditions or Ward Against Foes.

That Migraine mesmer doesn't fit into this build very well. Personally I think the Migraine + Interupt mesmer is a scrub build anyway.

I don't really understand Endure Pain on your warrior. Maybe sub that out for a Shield's Up or Bull's Strike.

Prince Telemakhos · May 24, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

wtf is a Rc/Prot doing with mend ailment

Byron · May 24, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Thanks for the replies, all.

The Migraine argument has a lot of merit, and I agree with those who are arguing against it. I would much rather have a true shutdown in that slot (ie, blackout/signet of humility), but the migraine does work in practice. Given the recharge of migraine and the pressure of the the other mesmers (2 energy surges = 160 damage on enemy party), I can almost understand how this build still gets away with migraine.

Then again, mesmers never were my specialty, and this isn't really my build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar49devil

Why would you have Healing Seed on the RC/Prot? Only one heal, spending 7 or so in healing?

Healing seed is your best friend in halls; even with only 10 in healing, it effectively removes 21 damage each attack from anyone you have to keep alive (eg, ghostly hero)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I do not see any skills on your SB/infuse monk that synergize with channeling

I thought all spells synergized with channeling...

You're right in that you will not gain any energy from channeling, but it will still be the most effective e-management in HA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I'd change dual attunes into Ether Prodigy on your fire ele because it's better for fueling extinguish.

E-prod is always a better choice for utility, but in this case, we need that fire ele dealing as much aoe as possible. Combined with energy surge, the dual attunement fire ele deals out a heap of damage pressure. With an RC/prot handy, extinguish is, more or less, only there for disease.

Quote:

I don't really understand Endure Pain on your warrior.

Relic running primarily, also good for absorbing spikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Telemakhos

wtf is a Rc/Prot doing with mend ailment

He has to remove his own conditions somehow.

Zui · May 24, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

"wtf is a Rc/Prot doing with mend ailment"

Restore Condition states "target other ally" Mend Ailment states "target ally"

Divineshadows · May 24, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I thought all spells synergized with channeling...

You're right in that you will not gain any energy from channeling, but it will still be the most effective e-management in HA.

Infuse health is not spammable despite its lack of recharge.
Healing seed has a hefty recharge.
Spellbreaker has a really hefty recharge.
Heal other is spammable, but costs 10 energy so you will not be able to likely spam it.
Healing touch is not going to help with channeling unless you are the one in need of healing or you intend to play battlefield medic and run around touching your allies with this spell.

I think that unless you are consistently reducing the cost of heal other to 4 or less (which by the way puts you as a monk into a very dangerous position) that channeling does not really fit into this build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

He has to remove his own conditions somehow.

While having a prot monk running restore condition and mend ailment as your only condition removal skills for 8 people is strictly better than having only restore condition, it is still not as solid as having more than one player on your team capable of removing conditions. Having all condition removal on a single ally means that your build is less redundant. A blackout or death of your prot monk means time that nobody can remove conditions. An err7 (which seemed to happen quite often for a stretch of a couple weeks in HA and GvG) can leave you with a team of 7 and a henchman with no ability to remove conditions.

Byron · May 25, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Infuse health is not spammable despite its lack of recharge.
Healing seed has a hefty recharge.
Spellbreaker has a really hefty recharge.
Heal other is spammable, but costs 10 energy so you will not be able to likely spam it.
Healing touch is not going to help with channeling unless you are the one in need of healing or you intend to play battlefield medic and run around touching your allies with this spell.

A very valid series of points. A drain enchantment or revealed hex in that slot would be better fuel for the big heals, but I don't think it would be better e-management. I never ran that particular sb/infuse build, so I can't comment with much validity.

Quote:

An err7(which seemed to happen quite often for a stretch of a couple weeks in HA and GvG) can leave you with a team of 7 and a henchman with no ability to remove conditions.

It would no doubt be crippling, but so would the removal of the WoH, or the warrior. There is no defense agaisnt err 7, especially in HA. That's why i like heal other on the infuser - he can pick up the slack if the WoH is down, blacked out, or e-denied.

For posterity, the ele does have extinguish, but that's beside the point.

dare49devil · May 25, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

1. RC/Prot does NOT run Healing Seed.
2. Toss out Hex Breaker and put in Holy Veil, much better.
3. Same with WoH, put in Holy Veil instead of Hex Breaker.

(once the team realizes you have Hex Breaker, they will toss a cover then real spell then cover, that would be within the first 15 seconds of match)

4. Healing Touch on WoH isn't needed.
5. For Hex Removals, Holy Veil > Inspired, if your monks are using Inspired for energy management

6. If you want an effective SB/Infuse build, use this one. It is similar to the build you want.
-SB
-Orison
-Infuse
-Heal Other
-Healing Seed
-Heal Party
-Holy Veil
-Channeling

Divineshadows · May 25, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

For posterity, the ele does have extinguish, but that's beside the point.

Looks like I had forgotten that your ele has extinguish. I have run restore condition and extinguish (on 2 different players) as the only condition removals quite often in HA. <3 extinguish in HA as it has such a fast cast and is a great counter to tainted flesh and to adrenal spikes (cause it can remove deep wound so fast). This works just fine for HA and should free up the spot you have being consumed by mend ailment.

Byron · May 28, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dare49devil

1. RC/Prot does NOT run Healing Seed.

A healing seed train is still the best way to keep a ghostly hero alive. The more copies of seed I can have, the better, and I can't think of anything more effective in that slot. Sprit bond is a possibility, though.

Quote:

2. Toss out Hex Breaker and put in Holy Veil, much better.

I don't see the deal with HA and holy veil, and never did. "Pre veil vs migraine," sure, but hex breaker is just as effective against migraine and it cannot be drained or shattered. As long as you have another hex removal on the bar, most mesmer hexes will be coming your way anyway. Holy veil is nice in its simplicity, however.

Quote:

(once the team realizes you have Hex Breaker, they will toss a cover then real spell then cover, that would be within the first 15 seconds of match)

Still, I feel a stance is a better tactic than an enchantment, especially since necros and mesmers can punish you while removing it.

Quote:

4. Healing Touch on WoH isn't needed.

Spamming orison often isn't enough to keep a monk alive. He can't WoH himself, and relying on the infuser isn't a good option IMO. These monks were designed for worst-case scenarios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

and should free up the spot you have being consumed by mend ailment.

I'm not sure taking out mend ailment is a good idea. Besides - what would replace it?