Curse

Rey Lentless · May 09, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Simply put... double strikes should still be capable of triggering while activating skills. It doesn't make sense to me that activating a skill should prevent this from occuring. Criticals are still capable of triggering while using a skill, and so should double strikes.

Assassin's dps is not comparable to warrior weapon dps, and the assassin is seemingly meant to be a spike class, at least with daggers. Get in quickly, unleash your combo.. get out. The attack skills available to the assassin do generally add more damage than warrior skills, so the lower dps is balanced in this way... with high spike capability and mobility, in exchange for lower armor and less dps. But, one of the inherent bonuses (double hits) aren't capable of being triggered while using this attack skill spike.

I'm suggesting that double hits be capable of hitting on every attack, including dual attacks. The second hit, if triggered, should not include any bonuses the attack skill gives, but simply be another hit registered.

As of now, double hits are rather worthless. They're extra dps and extra energy when the assassin leasts needs it (attacking between attack skill spikes).

Jagan Vastary · May 09, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

I'm suggesting that double hits be capable of hitting on every attack, including dual attacks. The second hit, if triggered, should not include any bonuses the attack skill gives, but simply be another hit registered.

As of now, double hits are rather worthless. They're extra dps and extra energy when the assassin leasts needs it (attacking between attack skill spikes).

Dual attack skills always hit twice, and the bonuses are applied on each attack. Dual strikes on lead and offhand attacks seems pretty iffy to me, that would be pretty powerful when you combo it with some high damage quick recharge leads like unsuspecting or something.

Rey Lentless · May 10, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Yes, I know how dual attacks work, what I'm talking about is double hits. These can only occur during normal attacks right now. The way assassins are set up, with hit and run themes.. you're usually going to be using attack skills when attacking. The double hits shouldn't carry additional skill damage, but they should still have a chance to trigger. It's the same concept with criticals being possible when you use attack skills.

Jagan Vastary · May 10, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Yes, I know how dual attacks work, what I'm talking about is double hits. These can only occur during normal attacks right now. The way assassins are set up, with hit and run themes.. you're usually going to be using attack skills when attacking. The double hits shouldn't carry additional skill damage, but they should still have a chance to trigger. It's the same concept with criticals being possible when you use attack skills.

Alright...so your suggestion for dual attacks is that they can attack up to four times, with two not carrying any attack bonuses? That seems...odd.

I'd be happier if they made it so lead -> offhand took the same amount of time as a double strike instead of taking the same amount of time as two seperate attacks, since it is like you are hitting with one dagger then following with the other, a dual strike. It fits better than giving leads and offhands the chance to dual strike, in my opinion.

Dancing Blade · May 10, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Dual attacks DO trigger on skills too i dont know what ur talking about. This is what makes the assassins damage output not too sucky.

Effigy · May 10, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

I think Rey has a good point here. Most of the time, assassins will want to get in, pull off a combo, and get out. However, this means the assassin would be spamming attack skills most of the time they are attacking, so double strike chance is pretty much a moot point. If double striking were possible while using skills, then it would have a practical use. I also agree that double strikes from attack skills should not get the damage bonuses, since that would likely be overpowering.

Symbol · May 10, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Think about what you're asking. The +damage from assassin skills is higher than the average damage of a single dagger hit. Asking for double strikes to occur on skills but not carry skill damage is a nerf.

What you really should be asking for (which I think is what Rey meant) is for double strikes to carry a single copy of the skill +damage.

Rey Lentless · May 10, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagan Vastary

Alright...so your suggestion for dual attacks is that they can attack up to four times, with two not carrying any attack bonuses? That seems...odd.

I'd be happier if they made it so lead -> offhand took the same amount of time as a double strike instead of taking the same amount of time as two seperate attacks, since it is like you are hitting with one dagger then following with the other, a dual strike. It fits better than giving leads and offhands the chance to dual strike, in my opinion.

That still wouldn't make double hits relevant and it would shorten up the assassin spike by quite a bit.

Quote:

Dual attacks DO trigger on skills too i dont know what ur talking about. This is what makes the assassins damage output not too sucky.

No, they don't. Test it yourself.

Quote:

I think Rey has a good point here. Most of the time, assassins will want to get in, pull off a combo, and get out. However, this means the assassin would be spamming attack skills most of the time they are attacking, so double strike chance is pretty much a moot point. If double striking were possible while using skills, then it would have a practical use. I also agree that double strikes from attack skills should not get the damage bonuses, since that would likely be overpowering.

Yes, exactly.

Quote:

Asking for double strikes to occur on skills but not carry skill damage is a nerf.

You lost me, I don't know how you can consider this a nerf.

Symbol · May 10, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

You lost me, I don't know how you can consider this a nerf.

The +damage of the skills is greater than the average dagger hit. If you double strike but lose the +damage entirely you're doing less damage.

Jagan Vastary · May 10, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

The +damage of the skills is greater than the average dagger hit. If you double strike but lose the +damage entirely you're doing less damage.

What he means is that the second of the dagger dual strikes wouldn't carry the bonus, but the first one would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

That still wouldn't make double hits relevant and it would shorten up the assassin spike by quite a bit.

Which is one of the reasons warriors bring frenzy, to shorten up spikes. Double strikes would still be used to build energy and create some more pressure with the psuedo attack speed boost.

Rey Lentless · May 10, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Yah, but you could still use TF or something with it. That would make a whole assassin chain (of 3 attack skills) require less than .9 seconds.

It does kinda make sense, but I think it may be overpowered and would lessen the importance of dual attacks if you were able to chain a lead and off-hand as quick as you get off one dual attack.

shardfenix · May 12, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Have I mentioned assassins are broken?
Unsuspecting strike X2 = gg

Jagan Vastary · May 12, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Have I mentioned assassins are broken?
Unsuspecting strike X2 = gg

If you read what he suggested, you would find it would be unsuspecting x1 + an extra attack, and even if it was unsuspecting x2 you wouldn't get double the super bonus of unsuspecting since the second hit would be below 90% health.

Sephir Demange · May 12, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

The assumption of this thread is that an assassin is incapable of hitting out on a target and that it's only cause for existence is spiking. This isn't true; though the assassin does have less armor, that doesn't mean it will die the moment he continues to beat on a casters head. Aslo, the dps of an assassin is comparable to the dps of a sword warrior. Besides, the dual attack on individual attack skills will delay the chain in general, and if you are counting on that deep wound from twisting fangs you could find your whole chain ruined by a guardian.

Rey Lentless · May 12, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

The dps is only on par with swords if you include the double hits. Why should they lose that with attack skills?

The double hits don't seem to me, to slow down a chain at all. The next attack appears to occur at the same time whether there was a double hit on the previous attack or not.

Dancing Blade · May 20, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I did sime tests on this and came to the conclusion that double strikes never occur while using lead and offhand attacks but always when you use a dual attack. for example the dual attack "critical strike" will always result in 2 critical hits + the bonus damage on your target.

Greedy Gus · May 20, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Dual attacks obviously have 2 hits. This is a different mechanic than "double strike" that only happens on normal attacks.

Xellos · May 30, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I'd rather they just up the percentage. Your weapon dps is garbage anyways. And I "Believe" that the attack speed is 1.33 just like sword/axe. Can anyone confirm attack speeds?

Rey Lentless · May 30, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

That wouldn't solve the problem of losing something by using an attack skill. It would be like not being able to critical while using an attack skill, it's the same thing.

Zui · May 30, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

No, the attack speed is faster. 1.25 seconds base. .95s on average with double strikes factored in.