Curse

Spoony · Jun 05, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Here ya go.

It's not much diffrent from ordinary FoC spike or blood spike, just changed the 3 main skills of the spikers, and added a cc + hexer + conditioner, so Discord may work. The first character, that is the cc + hexer + conditioner, is not officially said it works best for this. Wanted to know your opinion on that, but er... Well go ask JR.

http://www.gwshack.us/6b7a6

Hope you like it. Tried my best, or is that's what i think:P

CrispyCritter · Jun 05, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Ummm, you're using an elite, relatively low damage skill that requires your target to have both a hex AND a condition to spike with? Doesn't make much sense to me.

You don't have enough damage to kill someone without FoC, and that's going to be recharging every 10 seconds under QZ, so that kind of negates the only real advantage of using Discord, which is the fact that it's spammable.

I've seen death spike groups that used Deathly Swarm to spike, and that actually kind of worked. Blood spike is almost certainly going to be better, however, because life stealing ignores armor, and with the new addition of Vampiric Swarm it can even get the AoE damage in a spike build.

I think Discord was meant mainly as a pressure skill for hex-heavy builds. You can try it in a spike build, but I think it's sub-optimal.

Spoony · Jun 05, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Lets see, 79 damage per 2 seconds x 5... hmmmm 395 damage per 2 seconds.(cast time + recharge) 197.5 dmg per second.
Comparing to blood spike

!

100 damage from shadow strike per 4 seconds with 2 seconds cast, 50 damage per 6 seconds, 25 damage per 3 seconds, 8,3 damage per second
x 5 is 45.5 damage per second
Vampiric gaze,
63 damage per 2.5 sec recharge, and 1 second cast. that's 63 damage per 3.5 seconds, 18 damage per second, x 5 is 90 dmg per second.

90 + 45.5 = 135.5 damage per sec :2, cuz its 2 skills 67.66 dmg per second.
Discord = 197.5 dmg per sec

The only diffrence is, discord does not ignore protective spirit, and it's not life stealing.

Not sure about if it ignores armor, though:P

Edit: Not to mention the energy cost diffrence.

Vindexus · Jun 05, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

This build is too dependent on the FoC necro. If I kill him, then you have 5 useless elites. I'd fit some Enfeebling blood and parasitic bonds on the other necros.

I'd drop Deathly and Bitter Chill for those on your necros, with a few Shadow of Fears and Faints thrown in. With the recharge on Discord I don't see the use for those less intimidating skills.

I do like the idea though, good stuff.

kryshnysh · Jun 05, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony

Lets see, 79 damage per 2 seconds x 5... hmmmm 395 damage per 2 seconds.(cast time + recharge) 197.5 dmg per second.
Comparing to blood spike

!

Cast time = 1 second. Recharge = 2 seconds. 1 + 2 = 3 seconds. 131.67 damage per second. Not even going to bother including aftercast into the calculation, it hurts these numbers more than bloodspike though.

Thoughts from a relative n00b:

Condition sources: One spell, one skill on FoC necro. 3 per 11 seconds. 1 per 3.67 seconds. The skill requires a touch, so this is being generous...
Hex sources: One spell on FoC necro. 1 per 3 seconds.

Mend/Restore Condition: 1 cast per 2.75 seconds (again, no aftercast included).

Restore/Mend Condition > Enfeeble.

You've been rather strongly shut down by the RC Prot without adding in a lot more conditions/hexes, and thats without killing your FoC necro.

Not to mention telegraping on a spike by causing a condition, especially from Enfeebling Touch which is touch range only...

More condition and hex sources. You need to solve the condition removal and telegraping problems by overloading them with hexes and conditions. Martyr/Extinguish can still hurt you, but the slower recharge on those can be overwhelmed...

Finally, 395 + 126 = 521 damage. That doesn't seem like a ton of overkill. One RoF should be enough to stop that spike dead in its tracks, without even considering a Prot Spirit. A team with armor (and thus rune) switching seeing you as a spike will often be over that in health.

I do like the idea of the death spike. If you're wanting to truly spike rather than just overwhelm, a second FoC necro might work better. If you want to overwhelm in the 2nd and 3rd waves of Discord, hrm, would have to think about it more.

You need more condition/hex-causing skills.

Also, the points on your infuse N/Mo don't show 79 damage from Discord...

Chaos Herald · Jun 05, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

For a death spike, you could use flesh golems enchanted with death nova, when the flesh golems die use putrid explosion on the corpses.

Spoony · Jun 06, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

A lil bit changed the first 2 skills of the spikers, and the first character, so it's not that high priority target, made it a tainter, instead. The necrotic traversal is just in case targets foe's corpse isnt exploited, through the hex removals.

http://www.gwshack.us/f0ca0

I know what you think about the hexes recharge, but there is just not that many as you think, in the death magic.

kryshnysh · Jun 06, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

How are you spiking now? Or are you just relying on the four ways to make disease to soften up targets before spiking? Why so many skills for disease yet no other conditions (corpse-requiring methods don't help your spike get started, which seems to me to be your weakest point).

I'm not very experienced, so I'm sure I'm missing a lot, but here's how I would change it (or at least some preliminary ideas on that side of things) on just the necro side.

I'd replace Necros #1 and #6 from the second build with two copies of Necro #1 from the first build (FoC necro). On the FoC necros, I would replace Enfeeling Touch (lots of good curses spells), touch range just doesn't seem appealing to me. If energy isn't a concern, maybe put Suffering on the FoC necros instead of Parasitic Bond. Maybe replace one Well of Weariness with a Well of the Profane?

Replace Rising Bile on Necro #3 from the second build. Even if its a Curses 0 Parasitic Bond, it'll do as much or more damage if you keep flinging it around and be a whole lot easier to spread around. Not to mention the healing on yourself when it ends.

I'd replace one copy of Rotting Flesh/Malign Intervention with Chilblains + Plague Sending (ick, expensive, but it adds a new condition and spreads it around). I get the feeling weakness + disease isn't enough conditions to rely on for a spike.

Any other Malign Interventions, I would replace with Parasitic Bond. Its not meant as a heal, its meant as a ubiquitous hex and some minor damage to boot.

Conditions caused:
Disease - Rotting Flesh (x2) (remove from yourself with Extinguish)
Poison - Chilblains + Plague Sending (x1)
Weakness - Enfeeble (x2)

You could probaly replace another Rotting flesh, but Chilblains is so expensive as it is. Enfeeble serves a dual purpose, as a condition, and as warrior-hate.

Hexes:
Parasitic Bond (x3)
Suffering (x2)

I might replace one of the sufferings with Faintheartedness (even more warrior hate, plus degen, and another hex to stack on top), and/or Shadow of Fear (larger warrior hate, no degen, more hexes present on more enemies).

Now at least you can stack conditions and hexes, and your weakest point isn't quite as weak any more. Degen on opponents will be pretty hefty, and you have a good-sized spike. Even a team with Martyr will face a good bit of degen, two copies of extinguish will eliminate the disease twice as fast as one copy of martyr eliminates all of their conditions.

You could probably afford to take out a FoC necro, but for some reason, it feels stronger with that variety in it. If you want to go pure death, take it out, but you'll need to find a way to replace some of those hexes.

Apok Omen · Jun 13, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Personally, I dont think that build has enough hexes and conditions. You are under-estimating the requirements of the skill Discord.

Plus, you have no protection against Martyr, which will make your spike fail. You do not have enough hexes, nor cover hexes.

Plus, have you seen the amount of energy a necro has? You are giving the necros way too many high energy costing spells. Plus, they are all long time cast and will be easily interrupted.

And it doesnt really matter how many spirits are dying; the necros will be practically spamming heals due to IWAY putting on the pressure on you, even if they are under Weakness.

To my point, it seems you havent looked at every class when considering this ''spike''. There is a hidden power behind Discord, which makes it elite. The power of the skill makes it not only high damage, but requires the foe to have a hex AND a condition. Every class( excluding Monks and Ritualist) have their own condition and their own way of making that condition. Even SPREADING the condition. All you have is a junk load of necros with near-similar skills.

Necros are the Number 1 target in every match. Why? Because they are the most versatile, they have Corpse control, and great hexes. However, you are not taking advantage of this. The only conditions you have are Weakness, Poison, and Disease. The poison is situational. If the minion doesnt die near any enemies when Death Nova activates, no poison has spread.

Take a look at the Curses line again. Plus, look at other condition-causing skills and hexes from other classes. When I post my own build for Discord, you will see what I mean.

*note* this is not a flame against you, i just have tons of pvp experience and i have an idea of how others work and think. all i am doing is asking you to look at all of the other classes and see what i am saying**