Curse

XxForgexX · Jun 13, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

http://gwshack.us/27c29

notes:
the sword warrior differs depending on who's running it. our primary sword warrior uses the posted version, i use "Charge!" with 12 in Tactics
the assassin differs according to our assassin's mood. sometimes he keeps the sig, sometimes he swaps it out for CoP/Shock/Dash/Disrupting Stab
the Glyph/Rez combo may seem goofy, but it works surprisingly well. we'll sometimes trade one or both glyphs for Arc Lightning/Enervating Charge/Shard Storm/Heal Other

now, if only we'd stop encountering 1-3 err7's in every single match, maybe our rank wouldn't suck so bad

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxForgexX

http://gwshack.us/27c29

notes:
the sword warrior differs depending on who's running it. our primary sword warrior uses the posted version, i use "Charge!" with 12 in Tactics
the assassin differs according to our assassin's mood. sometimes he keeps the sig, sometimes he swaps it out for CoP/Shock/Dash/Disrupting Stab
the Glyph/Rez combo may seem goofy, but it works surprisingly well. we'll sometimes trade one or both glyphs for Arc Lightning/Enervating Charge/Shard Storm/Heal Other

Build looks solid, no real issues. The Glyph/Hard Res thing is interesting, but I honestly think it is not really very efficient. That is effectively four slots in your build dedicated to Hard Ressing; where most people go with one.

I would definately take "Charge!" on the Sword Warrior over Bull's Charge, far more usefull. I would also consider Penetrating or Rake over Distracting Blow on the Axe, for a bit more of an adren spike. With Shock you already have the ability to interrupt a lot of casts.

I would also consider dropping Guardian from one Boon Prot and Prot Spirit from the other, to free up slots for Signet of Devotion on both of them. That's probably a personal preference thing though.

Attributes all look solid aswell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxForgexX

now, if only we'd stop encountering 1-3 err7's in every single match, maybe our rank wouldn't suck so bad

Everyone gets err7's.

Yanman.be · Jun 13, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

I'd go with 15 or even 14 daggers mastery ( maybe using majors to at least keep 13 Critical strikes ), and invest more in shadow arts, or lose those skills totally...

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I'd go with 15 or even 14 daggers mastery ( maybe using majors to at least keep 13 Critical strikes ), and invest more in shadow arts, or lose those skills totally...

For a character that will probably occasionally be doing solo base jobs I would say they were both quite important. The +6 regen isn't a lot, but you can just shadow step away to safety and use it, so it's no big deal. It's enough to easily counter poison for example.

XxForgexX · Jun 13, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

exactly. we use the assassin for flag relaying, off-spiking, and NPC (for lack of a better term) assassination. he's far more effective at max damage with a crappy selfheal than at non-max with a crappy selfheal that heals for like 30 more

fatboyslimerr · Jun 13, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

You should consider using shock on your assassin, to combo with falling spider. I've seen it used so many times to great affect. Plus using zealous daggers, you can handle exhaustion.

I would take bull's strike instead of distracting blow on axe warrior, and take rush instead of sprint on both warriors. Charge is good but rush + dragon slash is pretty sweet also.

If you intend your mesmer to spam expel hexes he'll need more nrgy management than just drain enchantment. Possibly take out blackout or gale (I realise how important these skills are but your expeller needs his energy).

Rest of the build seems alright. I take it your assassin is the flag runner. You may wanna think about possible splitting with 1 warrior 1 assassin and 1 ele. In which case ele should have windborne speed. This also allows alternating flag runners. 2 MoR Boon Prots just seems like a bad idea to me. Enchantments are easy to remove especially by a mantra of recovery drainer/shatter mesmer. Consider one using energy drain or something.

Good job other than those things

XxForgexX · Jun 13, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

You should consider using shock on your assassin, to combo with falling spider. I've seen it used so many times to great affect. Plus using zealous daggers, you can handle exhaustion.

he's an assassin, it prettymuch goes without saying that he's using zealous daggers. and like i stated in the notes: "sometimes he keeps the sig, sometimes he swaps it out for CoP/Shock/Dash/Disrupting Stab"

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I would take bull's strike instead of distracting blow on axe warrior, and take rush instead of sprint on both warriors. Charge is good but rush + dragon slash is pretty sweet also.

on the axe warrior, DBlow over Bull's Strike is personal preference, as is Sprint over Rush
on the sword warrior, there's no room for Rush (even if i were to drop the sig on the "Charge!" variant that i run, it'd only be to fit in "Shields Up!"), and Dragon Slash doesn't synergize with Final Thrust

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

If you intend your mesmer to spam expel hexes he'll need more nrgy management than just drain enchantment. Possibly take out blackout or gale (I realise how important these skills are but your expeller needs his energy).

i've run the mesmer, and even without the +energy armor or a staff, i didn't have any issues. Expel isn't there to counter degen, we have a pair of ele's for that. it's there to counter warrior-hate, monk-hate, and for anti-spike (Shroud, Recurring/Barbs, and other such nonsense)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Rest of the build seems alright. I take it your assassin is the flag runner. You may wanna think about possible splitting with 1 warrior 1 assassin and 1 ele. In which case ele should have windborne speed. This also allows alternating flag runners.

the ideal situation (on our GH, Warrior's Isle):
game starts, assassin grabs the repairkit to stash in our GH, everyone else heads to the flagstand (one of the casters hangs onto the flag)
opposing team caps, we overcap, assassin picks up a flag on his way out, drops it off, caster picks it up, Assassin heads to the other team's base
the air ele (usually me) runs flags while the assassin is raping NPC's
if all goes well, the other team either ignores our assassin and loses their entire base, or they send a couple people to counter him, and our main force takes advantage and pushes them back

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

2 MoR Boon Prots just seems like a bad idea to me. Enchantments are easy to remove especially by a mantra of recovery drainer/shatter mesmer. Consider one using energy drain or something.

again, personal preference

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Good job other than those things

why thankyou

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

2 MoR Boon Prots just seems like a bad idea to me. Enchantments are easy to remove especially by a mantra of recovery drainer/shatter mesmer. Consider one using energy drain or something.

Generally the other team stripping your MoR is a good thing; it allows you to make use of any fast recharge bonuses you get, which are usually useless to MoR. It does mean you can occasionally waste some energy if they strip it early, but chances are that if they are putting you under pressure you shouldn't be near full energy anyway.

Worf · Jun 13, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I would change antoher monk's Protective Spirit to Infuse Health. Shadow Shroud...

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worf

I would change antoher monk's Protective Spirit to Infuse Health. Shadow Shroud...

Hardly anyone runs Shadow Shroud anymore; it was a bit of a gimmick.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 13, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I could argue for quite awhile why rush is better than sprint, but mainly due to the fact that all your energy should be exhaustable and I'd rather have a speed buff dependant on adrenaline which a warrior should have ample of, than energy which should soley be used for shocking and frenzying.

I play mesmer pretty much all the time and I'm saying from my far from expert opinion, if you intend your mesmer to be much good and since he has 2 15 energy spells as well as one causing exhaustion, you'll need extra energy management. That just seems logical unless you just plan for him to run around casting diversion occasionally and expel occasionally meaning natural regen will be enough.

Your assassin plan sounds pretty good, but I think there's no point me trying to tell you my opinion about splitting on warrior isle because you'll just say personal preference again. Same goes for MoR monks. I'm telling you as a mesmer, MoR is a gift for any kind of interrupt, whether it be power drain to fill up their energy, or power spike for 100+ dmg, or even the evil power leak

I say just leave it as it is if thats what works for you. But if you do wanna listen to me, change sword warrior to
Frenzy
Rush
Dragon Slash {E}
Sun and Moon
Bull's Strike/Sever Artery
Shock
Healing Signet
Res.

I'm really liking dragon slash at the mo, its at least worth a try.
I like your assassin build too actually and I might even steal it

2 Eles is also a good plan, you've got great support and pretty decent damage. Go win some GvGs and come back and report failures and strengths

Divineshadows · Jun 13, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I play mesmer pretty much all the time and I'm saying from my far from expert opinion, if you intend your mesmer to be much good and since he has 2 15 energy spells as well as one causing exhaustion, you'll need extra energy management. That just seems logical unless you just plan for him to run around casting diversion occasionally and expel occasionally meaning natural regen will be enough.

QFT. Drain enchant alone is not going to cut it on that bar. I would drop cry of frustration (as much as I love that skill) for shame. I think the two enchant removals -- being the only ones in the build -- are pretty necessary to keep along with the damage from shatter on spikes. Besides, this build has two copies of gale, two copies of shock, distracting blow, and blackout. These skills are among the right tools to help disrupt spikes, so I do think you can get by without CoF in this build. Just make sure to shock or distracting blow any spike teams that try to put down ward of stability....

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Same goes for MoR monks. I'm telling you as a mesmer, MoR is a gift for any kind of interrupt, whether it be power drain to fill up their energy, or power spike for 100+ dmg, or even the evil power leak

What then would you recommend running for energy management? Please do not say OoB

. Both Mantra of Recall and Energy Drain are one second casts. Interruption does hurt more with mantra than interruption on e-drain, because the initial investment of energy is higher. The monk could just fall back a bit to use their energy management elite in a spot where if a mesmer is camping for an interrupt the mesmer would be forced to move up to a spot where your team could shock or gale or blackout the guy. In general though I prefer e-drain, because it is easier to get going again after a rez, provides a little offense to the team through denying the opposition's energy, and gives you more control over when the energy comes.

XxForgexX · Jun 14, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I could argue for quite awhile why rush is better than sprint, but mainly due to the fact that all your energy should be exhaustable and I'd rather have a speed buff dependant on adrenaline which a warrior should have ample of, than energy which should soley be used for shocking and frenzying.

it's not better, it's different. Sprint is always available (assuming you didn't activate it 5 seconds ago) and can be used from outside battle. Rush needs to be charged by punching someone in the face, and can keep a warrior under a speed buff prettymuch 100% of the time while in a battle. however, in a build that's based more around spike than pressure, adrenaline is premium, and C-Space is just as effective for building up said adrenaline than chasing around a monk for 5 minutes

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I play mesmer pretty much all the time and I'm saying from my far from expert opinion, if you intend your mesmer to be much good and since he has 2 15 energy spells as well as one causing exhaustion, you'll need extra energy management. That just seems logical unless you just plan for him to run around casting diversion occasionally and expel occasionally meaning natural regen will be enough.

apparently you're under the impression that these builds are all untested. not at all. i originally had Lyssa's Balance instead of Drain Enchantment, but i scrapped it because i didn't like the conditionality of it. energy management is more than having a bunch of skills that give you energy, it's about using all of your skills as needed. just because you have Cry doesn't mean you have to try and interrupt something every 20 seconds, if that makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Your assassin plan sounds pretty good, but I think there's no point me trying to tell you my opinion about splitting on warrior isle because you'll just say personal preference again. Same goes for MoR monks. I'm telling you as a mesmer, MoR is a gift for any kind of interrupt, whether it be power drain to fill up their energy, or power spike for 100+ dmg, or even the evil power leak

like Divine said, EDrain's and MoR's cast times are identical. i'd even say EDrain is more succeseptable to interrupt because you have to be within casting range of someone on the opposing team to use it

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I say just leave it as it is if thats what works for you. But if you do wanna listen to me, change sword warrior to
Frenzy
Rush
Dragon Slash {E}
Sun and Moon
Bull's Strike/Sever Artery
Shock
Healing Signet
Res.

not only is that build weaker on a spike than ours , but the DPS is lower. an effective Dragon Slash build needs sever and gash along with sun&moon/silverwing in order to stand up to sever-gash-final, that's how important deep wound is. and in doing so, you lose some utility and massive spike ability in favor of slightly higher DPS

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I'm really liking dragon slash at the mo, its at least worth a try.

so is acid. assuming, of course, you can handle the experience of watching your sofa and your TV do the foxtrot, then dissolve into a thousands snake

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I like your assassin build too actually and I might even steal it

be sure to steal the original version. it had Frenzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

2 Eles is also a good plan, you've got great support and pretty decent damage.

and they're enough to give one of our monks an orgasm. i swear, one of these days, he's going to try to sneak in as a Mo/E with Etherprod, and i'm going to have to kick his ass

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Go win some GvGs and come back and report failures and strengths

failures: mass err7's, resulting in losses to a coupla top-100 teams, and a coupla FDS/Mending teams. and possibly the dual glyph/rez thing
strengths: winning 5 of 9 despite mass err7's

dgb · Jun 14, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

If you have mass err7s then you probably need to look at your personel - sadly but with reason I've been moved off monk duty after losing us about ten matches due to err7s. If you can't rely on someone playing for a full game regularly, they really shouldn't be playing.

Id suggest you're better off with glyph of essence and the res. Eles can build their energy up again quickly enough.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 14, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Can't be bothered to do all the quoting, but..

Fine, go ahead and use sprint, I just think rush is a lot better for shock warrior (who has to the limit possibly).

You think I just spam skills when I play msemer then ?, no what I'm saying is you have 2 15 energy skills which may be needed (for spike or to interrupt spike) when you've bin busy doing other things (diversioning for example) so you can't afford them and so you become less useful. If you take power drain possibly, at least then you've got a hope of having enough energy to still be useful when the situation arises for you to use your shatter enchant or CoF.

I never said MoR was bad, but I just think its a bad plan for both your monks take it, same with energy drain. Find out which one your monks like best and they take that.

If your warriors are working together then your swordman doesn't need to deep wound, if your axe fella is using eviscerate.
Thinking about it, I'm not sure frenzy benefits a dragon slash build as much as more damaging skills might, so like sever-gash-silverwing-dragon slash-rush-shock-healing signet-res. After a dragon slash, all your other attack skills should recharge making it possible for better spiking.

Mehh do whatever you want. I'm just saying your mesmer would have mass e-concerns if he's doing his job. You also have to anticipate what you might be up against, which usually means a mesmer able to spam diversion and expel hexes without worrying about energy as well as being able to CoF and shatter enchant when needed.