Curse

JR · Jun 12, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Read and discuss!

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ancedbuild.php

makosi · Jun 12, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Great article indeed. He gives great insight and examples as to why balanced builds, despite being complicated, have more potential than pure spike or gimmicky builds. It goes to show that spikes and pressure builds are effective against the unsuspecting but a co-ordinated balanced team are the safest bet as they should be able to handle either.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 13, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Excellent read.

I think it's interesting that he proposes splitting against a hex build. It seems like scattering your hex removal and Heal Party against a hex team isn't an ideal strategy, especially if you're only running a single Convert or Purge. Hex builds are a pain in general if you're not prepared for them, but I don't think splitting makes the load too much easier.

Otherwise though, great article.

Byron · Jun 13, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I was very happy to see heal party, cry of frustration, and extinguish all have glorified picture appearances. Otherwise, he is saying what we've been thinking everytime someone sings the praises of IWAY or blood spike.

Xasew · Jun 13, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I think it's interesting that he proposes splitting against a hex build. It seems like scattering your hex removal and Heal Party against a hex team isn't an ideal strategy, especially if you're only running a single Convert or Purge. Hex builds are a pain in general if you're not prepared for them, but I don't think splitting makes the load too much easier.

Well if the enemy only has 1 anti-warrior hex spammer, the other split won't have to deal with him at all any more, giving that team a warrior with full effectiveness. But I agree, split isn't exactly the "autowin" -button against hexes.

Great read.

Patrograd · Jun 13, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

There is no doubt that being able to run this kind of build in, say, the top 50 is the "holy grail" for any serious PvP team. The levels of communication, tactical play and skill required to pull this off are huge, Everyone needs to have a good understanding of the game, and even one slightly weak link in your team will get exposed.

Nice article, but worth stressing that I think relatively new players to the game will have a horrible experience trying to run this kind of team

sir lockt · Jun 13, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Excellent article.. thanks for bringing it to our attention (missed it somehow...)!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I think it's interesting that he proposes splitting against a hex build. It seems like scattering your hex removal and Heal Party against a hex team isn't an ideal strategy, especially if you're only running a single Convert or Purge. Hex builds are a pain in general if you're not prepared for them, but I don't think splitting makes the load too much easier.

But hex teams arent good in splitting... so a split might give them problems: press on to the base or defend the own base. I think a balanced split team can kill of the opposing base in a shorter time, certainly when the other split team is slowing. SO splitting is a good tactic, although not an auto win... both splits should be highly mobile and tactical...

Phelann · Jun 13, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

There is no doubt that being able to run this kind of build in, say, the top 50 is the "holy grail" for any serious PvP team. The levels of communication, tactical play and skill required to pull this off are huge, Everyone needs to have a good understanding of the game, and even one slightly weak link in your team will get exposed.

Nice article, but worth stressing that I think relatively new players to the game will have a horrible experience trying to run this kind of team

especially since the article mentioned pressure about 50 billion times but never explained once how a balanced build does it.

DO TEH TANKS ASSIST?! (most of the time no)
WHAT DOES THE ELE DO?>! (defense, but throws around random dps for pressure)
WHICH SKILLS ARE USED FOR THIS? (energy surge?!?~!/burn etc, apply poison, hexes etc)
DO THEY EVER SPIKE!? (yes, once the enemy is under heavier pressure and they have a lower average health)

I mean seriousely, he's willing to highlight heal party and cry of frustration, but not energy surge? Whats going on there~ It is a good article in how a balanced build adapts, but its a bad article on how a balanced build actually works (and 0 mention of steamrolls). What he should have done is take an average balanced build (say the double esurge, ele, 2 tank, monk, monk, runner one) and explained what that did in certain situations and how it worked, because that would pretty much explain balanced builds.

Parkerbsb · Jun 13, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I disagree telling people how to play a balanced build is actually a complete wate of time because there are so many ways to react to different situations.

I think the article was a pretty good read and should be insightfull to some of the newer members of the PvP community.

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

I mean seriousely, he's willing to highlight heal party and cry of frustration, but not energy surge? Whats going on there~ It is a good article in how a balanced build adapts, but its a bad article on how a balanced build actually works (and 0 mention of steamrolls). What he should have done is take an average balanced build (say the double esurge, ele, 2 tank, monk, monk, runner one) and explained what that did in certain situations and how it worked, because that would pretty much explain balanced builds.

Agreed, but I think he was more just wanting to give a general overview. If he had got into the technicalities of running a balanced build it could have ended up being a few thousand words longer.

Dzan · Jun 13, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I don't think he stressed the importance of having a good caller to a balanced build. The difference between a rank 50-100 guild running balanced and a rank 150-250 guild running balanced is often the skill of the caller.

I suppose you could say that for any type of build, but I think a spike taking stabs in the dark is going to be more successful than a balanced doing the same.

icemonkey · Jun 13, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

a good balanced build with a lot of pressure does not generally call spikes. If the warriors are really on the same page with each other spikes will happen all by themselves. Smart play by every team member > good caller

good caller is always good though

also wtf was that scourge healing makes it hard to Heal party, not really pal.

A good overview, and a lot of good info for someone who is clueless as to how GvG works and how a balanced build works, but not much there for experienced players.

kryshnysh · Jun 13, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

also wtf was that scourge healing makes it hard to Heal party, not really pal.

I've seen a decent elementalist kill themselves through scourge healing (to keep their monks alive). Admittedly, it was scourge from smiting monks, as few others run smiting high enough to do that much damage with scourge. 84 from apiece two scourges was gg heal party once the pressure really hit...

Vindexus · Jun 14, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

I hate JR's avatar.

(Good article too)

Khift · Jun 14, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I hate JR's avatar.

(Good article too)

I love it.

Both the avatar and the article. Though I love the avatar better.

Byron · Jun 14, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

As far as the avatar is concerned, I think a few statements were missed (these are what I can remember):

-Yes, PvE toons are better for PvP - stop asking.
-There are no "builds" for Random Arenas
-WoH is not e-management
-VIM is garbage
-Blackout does remove adrenaline
-Shielding hands is trash
-Vigorous spirit is not a heal
-Inspired hex is not a trick against diversion

Apok Omen · Jun 14, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

*cough* Discord Rules *cough*

Seriously, though, it was a great article stating how well coordinated Balanced is. It owns basically everything, if used correctly.

sir lockt · Jun 14, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

I mean seriousely, he's willing to highlight heal party and cry of frustration, but not energy surge? Whats going on there~ It is a good article in how a balanced build adapts, but its a bad article on how a balanced build actually works (and 0 mention of steamrolls). What he should have done is take an average balanced build (say the double esurge, ele, 2 tank, monk, monk, runner one) and explained what that did in certain situations and how it worked, because that would pretty much explain balanced builds.

All balanced teams raise their hands pls!

All balanced teams that uses 2 surgers raise their hands pls!

All decent balanced teams that uses 2 surgers raise their hands pls!

All elite balanced teams that use e-surge somewhere raise their hand pls!

Soz but I think the group will get smaller and smaller. Balanced is just to broad to pick an example. You are picking the easiest example, but most balanced teams with some level moved on ages ago....

Same holds for the 2 tanks and even the runner is debatable...

Vindexus · Jun 14, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

There are no tanks in PvP.

Lord Dark Genie · Jun 14, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Same holds for the 2 tanks and even the runner is debatable...

WTF are tanks ? Are you sure you're talking about GvG ?

On topic : I agree with Phelann that the article lacks a good definition of what a balanced build actually is.