Curse

Lady Kalvam · Jun 14, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

The only real strengths i can see in the use of Degen is either pressure builds or the psychological effect. Simply using mathematics, Degen is astonishingly weak yet it still has a lot of uses and some even consider it overpowered.

Your health degen caps at -10 pips and each pip represents a health loss of 2 Health per Second. So basically you are taking 20 damage each second. Assuming you are at 480 Health when you bring your character into the arena you'll have a total of 24 seconds to do something about the degen. 24 Seconds to do a measly 480 damage, how can that be overpowered? A single warrior combo deals the same damage in roughly 4-5 hits (just an example). Hell, even the annoying Touch Rangers (due to their quantity) have more damage output (65 DPS).

But as i allready said, the degeneration is mostly a psychological weapon in my opinion. I've seen lots and lots of players simply freak out when their health starts to degen. All of a sudden they start to panic and do lots of crazy stuff, nothing of which will save them in the long run. Just relax and don't panic. In 24 Seconds you can do a lot of nasty things. 24 Seconds are quite a long time in the fast paced PVP Environment.

However, if you're simply relying on your damage to take the enemy out first, without wasting a thought on how to stay alive, then yes... degen is overpowering your poor build.

nohooiam · Jun 14, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

omg!@~@~@! this is exactly what i'm talking about.

igi's degen build is toooooo powerful. hp spam doesn't work becuz the emo gets migrained. its not fair~~. there is no counter, omg!

ALL mesmer/necro degen hex + mantra of persistence must be nerfed. AHHHH.

maximum degen needs to be lowered to 2.

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow-Hunter

You would nerf Rock ofc.. Becouse its soo unfair that you cant keep using scissors yourself and win everytime..

~Shadow

What?! Your joking right... Rock may be able to pwn Scissors constantly, but he gets owned all the time by Paper. If anything we should buff Rock!

Degen is definatly for pressure rather than 'damage'. Its durations are nothing spectacular, except Wither, Faintheartedness and Life Siphon i guess. But the majority of degen hexes need a lot of work to kill people, even then simple degening 1 member of a team gets you nowhere. If you can't degen at least 4 members by significant amounts for minutes at a time, your not gonna gain anything.

Think of it on an FoW Chest Run. When 20-30 of your health is dissapearing each second from getting hit, you can strafe to avoid it or use evasion. Life Transfer+Siphon hits you and that -20 health a second aint gonna stop anytime soon whatever you do.

bulletsmile · Jun 14, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

uuum, ok here's some things you need to keep in mind:
- you can't get more degen then -10
- even before factions you could get max degen, so whats the deal`?
- you know, there is actually skills that remove degen
- -10 degen on a guy with 500hp = dead in 30 sec or something with no healing, in other words,you got plenty of time to heal yourself, get healed and attack them.

Irongate · Jun 14, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

My point wasn't that I am losing, its just that its too easy to win most times, *duh*. Cast hexes, they get removed, someone else in my team casts hexes and all non-range players in that team are dead before they can even take the first swipe.

On the other side of the coin, OK, so I am in RA, I remove all my attack spells and load up on hex removals. I add a bit of healing to keep up with the close attacks. Then what? Recharge kills me and I can't attack! *Duh*

Not a noob, just smarter than most

Jetdoc · Jun 14, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irongate

so I am in RA

DING DING DING!!!! We have a WINNAH!!!!

This is your problem. In most organized PvP (e.g. Team Arena, Heroes Ascent, Guild vs. Guild, etc.), most teams plan on being hexed and have dedicated members assigned the duties of hex removal.

In RA, you're basically on your own. If you're being hexed to death and don't have the ability to remove them yourself (or at least fast enough for your liking), your duty is:

1. Bring self heals to counter the degen.
2. Kill them before the degen kills you.

The problem is that ANet generally doesn't make wholesale changes because of trends they are seeing in RA. RA is good for build testing, general killing fun and a nice ground for PvP novices to get their feet wet.

lyra_song · Jun 14, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irongate

My point wasn't that I am losing, its just that its too easy to win most times, *duh*. Cast hexes, they get removed, someone else in my team casts hexes and all non-range players in that team are dead before they can even take the first swipe.

On the other side of the coin, OK, so I am in RA, I remove all my attack spells and load up on hex removals. I add a bit of healing to keep up with the close attacks. Then what? Recharge kills me and I can't attack! *Duh*

Not a noob, just smarter than most

You cant make a build and expect to beat every build. Especially in Randumb Arena.

Hexes are meant to be used. If you dont like it, invest in some hex removal, maybe a Lieutenant's helm.

Hex spamming works well in RA because people rarely bring hex removal. Just ask that last touch ranger who had crippling anguish and conjure nightmare on him.

Its a valid strategy. Deal with it.

Priest Of Sin · Jun 14, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Chaos Storm FTW... nobody expects it... and it totally blows up mesmer air spike... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

OP, the point of guild wars PvP is spike builds, you silly man.

makosi · Jun 14, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

Chaos Storm FTW... nobody expects it... and it totally blows up mesmer air spike... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!.

I lol'd!

If you are in "randumb arena" its standard procedure that you have mending so you're immune to degen.... right?

IMO, RA should be removed because its so enraging that it could cause mental illnesses.

lyra_song · Jun 14, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irongate

Everything is a valid strategy until its brought back into line.

Exploiting is not a valid strategy. Griefing is not a valid strategy (IMO). Whining is not a valid strategy either.

Mesmers and Necros have hexes that degen. Those hexes stack. Those hexes only stack up to -10 degeneration.

Its balanced, its not overpowered. Yes it may be BORING. But seriously, if you dont like it, dont play it. If you hate meeting it, bring hex removal.

floplag · Jun 14, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

the display caps at -10, the effect does not

to explain ... a mesmer can easily put 15+ or more degen on you with a few well placed spells... Conjure nightmare -8, conjure phantasm -3, phantom pain -3, etc.... right there ive listed three that can put you at -14.

now the display will only show -10... but if you apply a healing breeze at -8, you do not go down to -2.. you go to -6.

the display does not show all possible degen. this is why there are times when you can have max degen on you, hit a heal, and still have max degen

Zakarr · Jun 14, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Heh, I just love creating degen against foes with my ritualist. Conjure phantasm, nightmare, images of remorse and phantom pain is real turtle killer in fort aspenwood. Works nice against human players too. So many stop to think when they are using troll unguent, healing breeze or something else and they still have -10 degen

Especially touchers hate me.

unienaule · Jun 14, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Key safety tip/reason for deleting a couple of... er... embarassing flames: Nohooiam was being EXTREMELY SARCASTIC.

lg5000 · Jun 15, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

the display caps at -10, the effect does not

to explain ... a mesmer can easily put 15+ or more degen on you with a few well placed spells... Conjure nightmare -8, conjure phantasm -3, phantom pain -3, etc.... right there ive listed three that can put you at -14.

now the display will only show -10... but if you apply a healing breeze at -8, you do not go down to -2.. you go to -6.

the display does not show all possible degen. this is why there are times when you can have max degen on you, hit a heal, and still have max degen

From what I understood it maxes out at -10. The additional degen won't affect the victim unless some type of health regen is on them, in which case, it goes straight back to -10. At no stage should a player experience more than -10 degen, simply because of the way the degen system is set out.

Now for the nasty mesmer or necro who plays degen (me), it means that I'm not going to waste my energy and put anything more than -10 degen on you, unless I see you have an enchantment on or are using troll ungent, in which case, I'll probably top it up to -10 again or remove your enchantment.

Shatter hex is a nasty counter to hexes though, as it's in the no attribute line and can be used by anyone on the team.

NatalieD · Jun 15, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

the display caps at -10, the effect does not

to explain ... a mesmer can easily put 15+ or more degen on you with a few well placed spells... Conjure nightmare -8, conjure phantasm -3, phantom pain -3, etc.... right there ive listed three that can put you at -14.

now the display will only show -10... but if you apply a healing breeze at -8, you do not go down to -2.. you go to -6.

the display does not show all possible degen. this is why there are times when you can have max degen on you, hit a heal, and still have max degen

The arrows shown are the only arrows that affect your health. The "extra" arrows are still calculated for determining the net total after regen is applied, yes, but they won't make you lose health any faster if there are ten arrows visible.

To put it simply, you cannot lose or gain more than 20 health per second from any amount of degen or regen.

In other words, lg5000 is right, except that Shatter Hex is a Domination skill, not unlinked.

Demesis · Jun 15, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I usually take my warrior and bring HEALING HANDS and HEALING BREEZE.

Then I run up against the Luxon warriors gurading the turtle and let them hit me, BOOM! In effect, you depend on the Luxon warriors hitting you to gain health. They'll follow you around hitting you, but are in effect healing you like crazy. no hex spell can degen the rate of healing the Luxon warriors give me.

Then of course, I'll go after the seige turtle. Cripple it to make it walk slower and make it bleed and deep wound it and the sort. I'm not at all worried about degen. I am a bit pissed off about the dirty tactics monks use by hiding inside the turtle's carrier's defense range.

lg5000 · Jun 15, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Aww.. I'm stupid.. I meant the elite skill Expel hex.. not shatter hex.. *goes and hides now after showing blatant lack of knowledge of names of skills*

dgb · Jun 15, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

If you're playing randoms gg. You have to bring in a character that can look after itself, find something that works and bring it.

If you're playing anything organised get a better build and better players.

Navaros, don't cry because degen beats your beloved IWAY. If you can't be bothered to run something other than a uni-dimensional fotm build, don't be surprised when you lose.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 15, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

[sarcasm]
ArenaNet Needs to nerf these things cuz they're so overpowered!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!one!!!11!!!!!!eleven!!! !1!!!1!!!shift+1!!1!1

Healers because they don't just die when you hit them enough
Elementalists do to much damage and you can never, ever, protect against it
Warriors can tank too well and you absolutely have to hit them first; there is just no avoiding it
Necromancers should only have half a minion at a time because mms are overpowered
Rangers should have their bows reduced to touch weapons cuz its soooooooo annoying when they hit you and you can't hit them
Assassins have way to many uber combos that cannot be stopped no matter how hard you try
the /dance emote because it has too much sex appeal

[/sarcasm]
Stop whining and deal with it.

Demesis · Jun 15, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41