Curse

Yunas Ele · Jul 03, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gosu

Now everyone pay attention this is where the "real problem arose with Iway" the real problem occurred when alot of sub-par to very average players used and abused this build to get a good rank to play with good players. The problem was as someone stated before was once alot of players had attained this rank they realised as i stated in a prior post many months ago that they would still be the newbie who didn't know that much about the game this in turn i believe was where the term "rank 3 Noob" came into passing.

There were rank 3 noobs before IWAY. Heck, there were rank 6 noobs before IWAY. Spirit spamming ftw. Hmm, what ruined the rank system more. A build that allowed noobs to hold halls for days straight and be AFK half the time, or a build that allows noobs to go 2 or 3 consec. Hmmm, tough decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

And dont bullshit yourself with "Yesterday I held halls with IWAY 10 times in a row with 3 AFK'ers and 2 henchmen and 2 PuGs during peak hours"

I know thats direct at me. My team held 7 consec with an AFKer and 2 henchmen. During prime time. I can post pics of it you want, but I don't really know how to prove it was during prime time. You don't have to believe me, but I know what I did, so does my team, and so do the people that lost to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicFiber

I did, and it's definitly doable. But it's way too hard for the avarage pickupgroup nowadays. And usually most balanced teams can kill these teams fast.

The average pickup group sucks. A good enchantment free team can own a balance team too. Just have to know what they are doing.

Caros · Jul 03, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicFiber

I did, and it's definitly doable. But it's way too hard for the avarage pickupgroup nowadays. And usually most balanced teams can kill these teams fast.

My guild runs an Nr Tranquility build, and it is extremely strong defensively, against iway and balanced teams. A rit and a warder is enough to limit the warrior damage tbh. We haven't lost to iway without seriously screwing up. The other major FOTM, dual smite, gets destroyed by this too. It's well worth running.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 03, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

There were rank 3 noobs before IWAY. Heck, there were rank 6 noobs before IWAY. Spirit spamming ftw. Hmm, what ruined the rank system more. A build that allowed noobs to hold halls for days straight and be AFK half the time, or a build that allows noobs to go 2 or 3 consec. Hmmm, tough decision.

How about r9 noobs? THe thing about spirit spamming is that it didn't allow masses of people to gain rank fast. It only allowed those people that actually got to and held halls to gain rank fast. For most people, it just made it impossible to hold halls. IWAY was different, it allowed a random person to go roll a W/R, get a couple skills and runes, and go farm fame fairly consistently.

Gosu · Jul 03, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

There were rank 3 noobs before IWAY. Heck, there were rank 6 noobs before IWAY. Spirit spamming ftw. Hmm, what ruined the rank system more. A build that allowed noobs to hold halls for days straight and be AFK half the time, or a build that allows noobs to go 2 or 3 consec. Hmmm, tough decision..

You are trying to twist the point i was getting at, if you bothered to post the the sentences i said after that. I did mention that Iway was only a minute part of the problem. I said that as an indication that there are many facets to the problem with the ranking system and Heroes Ascent. I was just trying to expand the topic

The fact remains that what i have said still bears weight as it is common knowledge that Iway is abused for the simple reason to farm fame. As i was trying to indicate in that paragraph. Now of course there were rank 3 noobs before IWay that's not the point i was trying to make, though the term was probably popularised as a by product of the masses of players that took it upon themselves to abuse this build during a period of time in this game.

Now on another note, someone made issued a post about why Elite Guilds don't complain about Iway. The thing is there are probably a few Elite guilds that do complain but maybe the reason you don't really see an outcry from them is that basically it boils down to the fact that most of them aren't that concerned as most of theses guild probably are only really bothered about the guild ladder and GvG matches, which is there bread and butter.

Now i admit you do see top Guilds in HA from time to time but you don't see them tangling with Iway constantly day after day like some Ha guilds do. So it's not really something they would need to put up with if they didn't really want to as they could just retreat back to GvG. We have all seen top/good Guilds get turned over by "gimmick builds" in HA from time to time i am sure if they had to contend with that on a daily basis then maybe you would see some discomfort.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 03, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Elite guilds usually don't HA unless they're bored, the ladder is locked, or they're just messing around. One exception is elite guilds who have a non-GvG section of players, who are there to train people, give advice, guest for other guilds, etc. These players may HA.

Yunas Ele · Jul 03, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

How about r9 noobs? THe thing about spirit spamming is that it didn't allow masses of people to gain rank fast. It only allowed those people that actually got to and held halls to gain rank fast. For most people, it just made it impossible to hold halls. IWAY was different, it allowed a random person to go roll a W/R, get a couple skills and runes, and go farm fame fairly consistently.

Yes, there were r9 noobs. And if IWAY never existed there'd be r9 noobs today. Also, if spirit spamming was around as long as IWAYs been, it woulda got more people their ranks than IWAY did. But it got nerfed. While its true IWAY made fame farming more 'consistent', I'd be hard pushed to say it killed the meaning of rank. Rank represents how much you've grinded in PvP. It never has, and never will represent skill. So IWAY is only breaking something that was already broken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gosu

You are trying to twist the point i was getting at, if you bothered to post the the sentences i said after that. I did mention that Iway was only a minute part of the problem. I said that as an indication that there are many facets to the problem with the ranking system and Heroes Ascent. I was just trying to expand the topic

I wasn't disagreeing with you or argueing against your point, FYI. I was adding onto what you said.

Lando Griffen · Jul 04, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofGrenth

Why do Iway and Balanced hate each other?

I've played balanced and iway...I just hate people who complain about stuff like that. When I play "balanced", we beat most iway teams, when I play iway, we beat most "balanced" teams. Please anet, nerf having fun

Anyway, the reason is because people in general are retarded. Don't choose a side, just hate everyone

Vindexus · Jul 04, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Hate from IWAY comes from the fact that you never feel you've been bested when you lose. They've rarely done anything impressive when you lose so you feel cheated.

tomcruisejr · Jul 04, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

I can see why someone would IWAY sometimes but NOT all the time and NOT with their guild and DEFINITELY NOT in GvG. (Im not gonna point fingers now but you might know who im talking about.) Using IWAY in GvG is just pathetic...

before, during the first GWWC ladder, when EP was still the metagame, it was believed that iway cant get past top 500 of the gvg ladder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

How about r9 noobs? THe thing about spirit spamming is that it didn't allow masses of people to gain rank fast. It only allowed those people that actually got to and held halls to gain rank fast. For most people, it just made it impossible to hold halls. IWAY was different, it allowed a random person to go roll a W/R, get a couple skills and runes, and go farm fame fairly consistently.

so the rate of getting fame is the root of all this hate, not the level of skill blah blahs?

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 04, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Hate from IWAY comes from the fact that you never feel you've been bested when you lose. They've rarely done anything impressive when you lose so you feel cheated.

That and half the time I loose to IWAY it is because of EoE going down when the spirit hunter isn't doing its job.

Gosu · Jul 04, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Yes, there were r9 noobs. And if IWAY never existed there'd be r9 noobs today. Also, if spirit spamming was around as long as IWAYs been, it woulda got more people their ranks than IWAY did. But it got nerfed. While its true IWAY made fame farming more 'consistent', I'd be hard pushed to say it killed the meaning of rank. Rank represents how much you've grinded in PvP. It never has, and never will represent skill. So IWAY is only breaking something that was already broken.

I wasn't disagreeing with you or argueing against your point, FYI. I was adding onto what you said.

Yuna i apologise if my tone in the last post seemed critical of what you said, it's just how your initial reponse post came across to me was as i percieved that you were attacking a few of my points.

i also agree with what you said in the first paragraph of this post as i commented in my initial post that a common misconception among alot of players is that Iway did ruin HA when in actual fact many factors have to be taken into account of the lack of credability in the personal ranking system.

Maybe Anet should though i highly doubt it and would maybe lead to a major exodus of players if Anet did this but maybe Anet should hold an open discussion about revolutionsing their player ranking system basing it around PVE & PVP thus resetting everyone's rank and implementing safeguards so that the rank system doesn't become broken again.

what does everyone think about that?

TheOneMephisto · Jul 04, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

so the rate of getting fame is the root of all this hate, not the level of skill blah blahs?

It's certainly part of it.

Even it IWAY didn't ruin the rank system, you can't argue against the fact that it sped along its demise.

master_of_puppets · Jul 04, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

Rank represents how much you've grinded in PvP. It never has, and never will represent skill. So IWAY is only breaking something that was already broken.

You say all that about rank meaning absolutely nothing except how much time you've spent grinding yet you yourself probably only ask for r9+(or whatever rank you are if you're in MATH then its probably pretty high) when making groups. All IWAYers do that so I'm just assuming you do too. I guess everyone who's rank 8 or lower is a noob and isnt worthy to play IWAY.

lord of shadow · Jul 04, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

all iwayers do that?
i'm sorry- which planet are you on?
all ranked players do that- rank has a very poor indication of skill, but it does show experience in HA, somebody who has won 1000 matches is much more likely to know that the ghostly hero has to have captured the altar than someone straight out of random arena (yes it's a stupid and oversimplistic example but i hope you can see my point).

to say that iwayers are the only people to ask for rank is utter crap. the fact is that people who have got a certain rank want to play with people of a similar experience.

as for rank being pve and pvp related... no. just no. pve and pvp skill have no realtion to each other except a minimal understanding of the game.

SonofGrenth · Jul 04, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I agree with Lord, rank DOES say something

Guinea Fig · Jul 04, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I guess that is what it boils down to for me at least... my complaint is about how good at it is at whoring fame.

Best fame farming build since old necro spike and spirit spam. Those builds got fame by holding halls many, many times. IWAY gets its fame by just zerging through maps for quick 15-30 fame runs. It's easy to put together because I think it is the only build where you can pug half the team and still expect to win consistently. Even complete pugs of IWAY get to halls all the time. The risk of losing due to any one person screwing up is definately less for IWAY than any other build I can think of. That's the reason why new players continue to play it and why it has generated more 2 month one-build rank9s than any other build. For the purpose of gaining fame, no build in the game can really compare.

"Even it IWAY didn't ruin the rank system, you can't argue against the fact that it sped along its demise."

Thanks TheOneMephisto.

tomcruisejr · Jul 04, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofGrenth

I agree with Lord, rank DOES say something

before, rank was so valued that if you got high rank that means you can play everything superbly, which was ridiculous. ive seen high ranks in the past, prior to iway of course, that sucked. the definition back then of skilled = "you can play anything" and not "excelling on whatever you do". moreover, it prevented new players who wanna play from joining good groups. thank the fotms.

if you got a single build that you can use as a basis for evaluating players, rank can be of purpose. say there's this 2 person who dedicated themselves playing only blood spike. and they got their ranks. first is rank 4 and the other is rank 9. if i wanna form a bloodspike with high probability of winning, ill take rank 9 over rank 4.

same with iway, if i wanna form my winning iway group, i will take a rank 8 iway guy over rank 2 iway. and i will take a rank 9 iwayer than a rank 9 who played mostly mesmer or monk.

but say if i wanna make a winning balanced group, i will gladly take rank 1 but experienced monk (maybe in gvg) than a rank 10 iway who never played any monking.

Mental Leteci · Jul 04, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Let me say one thing so you can stop discussion about IWAY is bad/not bad and get back on topic. Only people in IWAY groups who actually know what they're doing and why are they doing it are necros and trappers. Co-ordination between necros and trappers has to be really good if you want your IWAY group to win. That's the only reason why IWAY wins. That,and maybe the map you're fighting them on. If they're 2nd team in scarred earth and they defeat other team faster than you you're most likely going to lose.
W/R in IWAY groups are actually just people who have no idea about tactics and planning,they just run around and waste their adrenaline on someone. I am sure that 90% of IWAY warriors wouldn't have a clue what to do in balanced groups. Please don't try to contradict my post cause everyone will agree with me this is true,everyone but W/R themselves.

tomcruisejr · Jul 04, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Let me say one thing so you can stop discussion about IWAY is bad/not bad and get back on topic. Only people in IWAY groups who actually know what they're doing and why are they doing it are necros and trappers. Co-ordination between necros and trappers has to be really good if you want your IWAY group to win. That's the only reason why IWAY wins. That,and maybe the map you're fighting them on. If they're 2nd team in scarred earth and they defeat other team faster than you you're most likely going to lose.
W/R in IWAY groups are actually just people who have no idea about tactics and planning,they just run around and waste their adrenaline on someone. I am sure that 90% of IWAY warriors wouldn't have a clue what to do in balanced groups. Please don't try to contradict my post cause everyone will agree with me this is true,everyone but W/R themselves.

iway's main offense are the warriors. trappers and necros are there to assist them. if you got sucky warriors, your iway team wont go anywhere.

in iway, warriors need more coordination to do things efficiently than the trappers, who can freely roam around, and necros, who are most of the time in the backline.

but of course, if you got superb warriors but sucky trappers and necro, also the same thing. you got a bad iway going.

same in any other builds, you need good erm experienced

people running each of the classes in the build for it to win of course.

Yunas Ele · Jul 04, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gosu

Yuna i apologise if my tone in the last post seemed critical of what you said, it's just how your initial reponse post came across to me was as i percieved that you were attacking a few of my points.

Not a problem. I should of started my post off with "just to add onto what Gosu was saying" or whatever to be more clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

You say all that about rank meaning absolutely nothing except how much time you've spent grinding yet you yourself probably only ask for r9+(or whatever rank you are if you're in MATH then its probably pretty high) when making groups. All IWAYers do that so I'm just assuming you do too. I guess everyone who's rank 8 or lower is a noob and isnt worthy to play IWAY.

WTF do you mean "I guess everyone who's rank 8 or lower is a noob and isnt worthy to play IWAY". I can tell you, there are MUCH MUCH more r6+ or r8+ IWAYs forming than r9+, as well as a lot of unranked and r3+ IWAYs as well, so I think anyone who wants can play IWAY....

Ok, I admit it, you got me with the "yet you yourself probably only ask for r9+". I'm a hypocrite. Usually, a higher ranked player plays better, but there are also soooo many bad high ranked players, thats why rank doesn't represent skill. The other day I pugged 2 r9+ orders necros that didn't know how to kite. They just stood there while mesmers were hexing 'em up and warriors smashing at 'em. Not even trying to kite. When I asked them why they aren't kiting they ask me what kiting is -_-. I guess theres just a higher chance that the player will be better with higher rank. Key word: chance. Not always. I myself generally try to avoiding pugging as much as possible, but sometimes you gotta, so I guess I just ask for what will give me a higher chance of getting more a skilled player (so asking for r9+...).

Also, IWAY most definately isn't the only one that asks for rank requirements to join the groups. Everyone does, unless of course its an unranked pug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

Best fame farming build since old necro spike and spirit spam. Those builds got fame by holding halls many, many times. IWAY gets its fame by just zerging through maps for quick 15-30 fame runs.

But its not as good as them. Hmm, which is going to ruin the rank system more. A build that gives u 15-30 fame runs or a build that allows you to hold halls many, many times. Tough choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

Even complete pugs of IWAY get to halls all the time.

They hall skip. I've been in my fair share of IWAY pugs and 90% of them don't get to halls without a skip, or at a dead time. Only, experienced and organized IWAYs can actually get to Halls and hold it. Similar to balanced and spike teams. Only good teams are gonna hold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Let me say one thing so you can stop discussion about IWAY is bad/not bad and get back on topic. Only people in IWAY groups who actually know what they're doing and why are they doing it are necros and trappers. Co-ordination between necros and trappers has to be really good if you want your IWAY group to win. That's the only reason why IWAY wins. That,and maybe the map you're fighting them on. If they're 2nd team in scarred earth and they defeat other team faster than you you're most likely going to lose.
W/R in IWAY groups are actually just people who have no idea about tactics and planning,they just run around and waste their adrenaline on someone. I am sure that 90% of IWAY warriors wouldn't have a clue what to do in balanced groups. Please don't try to contradict my post cause everyone will agree with me this is true,everyone but W/R themselves.

While its argueable that the W/R may take less skill to play than the orders or trappers, to say the things your saying is just plain ignorant. tomcruisejr sums up my thoughts quite well, but I'm going to add onto what he said.

Lets say you had a team of the 2 best orders necros and 2 best trappers (or 1 trapper 1 rit since that seems more popular now), and then 4 random, crappy, cluess W/Rs, you're not going to get very far. The same way if you had the 4 best W/Rs in the game and then some crappy, cluessless orders and trappers, you're not going to get too far either. Its the same with balance. If some people in the team suck, its gonna pull the team down, even if the rest of the players are good.

Sure, being a good IWAY warrior isn't going to make you a good balance warrior, but it works the other way too. Being a good balance warrior doesn't make you a good IWAY warrior. They are different things. Thats like saying that because someone is a good monk, they should be a good mesmer too. But they may not be. They are two different things. The same way a balance warrior and an IWAY warrior are different.