Curse

Ensign · Jun 26, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I don't think you address SB/RI spike by breaking the interaction between the two skills. That interaction is central to the build, but I don't think it's what's making it overpowered alone. If you wanted to change those skills at all, I think you change Recurring Insecurity to go on top of the hex that reapplied it instead of burying it. But there are less central things to the build that you could attack to lower it in power. The goal isn't neccessarily to neutralize the build completely, simply to reduce it to a power level that people have a chance of fighting against.

Air of Enchantment is obvious, free is overpowered. If you put the Divine Spirit condition on Air as well (cannot reduce the cost below 1) the skill is perfectly fair.

Peace,
-CxE

Schorny · Jun 26, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Air of Enchantment is obvious, free is overpowered.

Though I still do not understand why they put this skill in.

I mean, it makes really no sense to use it outside a smiter build because it doesn't last long enough and it can't be put on yourself. So you can't use it as energie management for a boon prot, and even then it wouldn't be too good.

It works nice as energy management if someone's getting burst damage over a long period of time.. but come on, noone wants to waste an elite slot for that.

so they obviously designed it with smiting in mind... and they should have known that it would make smiting very strong... So I'm not sure that anet wants to nerf it... (Though I think it is way too good).

Isil`Zha · Jun 26, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Touch Rangers need to be fixed - first of all, I'm getting sick of going to ABs and seeing nothing but "TOUCH RANGER LF MORE TOUCH RANGERS"

Before I start, and someone says "they're not that bad to fight against!" I'm going to agree, cause they don't have good burst damage and I've killed any touch ranger one on one I've ever come across. The biggest thing I do to them with my Assassin, is run up (or usually Shadow Step) and stick a ton of degen on em and get their health low really quick. At this point they desperately run after me in order to heal themselves, at which point I cripple them and they die. They're only a threat to me in numbers, but then, that's true of anyone.

Here's my problem with them: First, they take absolutely zero skill to use. Use one skill, use the seconds skill, repeat ad infinitum - for big chunks of damage and healing. Throw in a stance or two at random intervals/when you come under attack. The biggest problem is the fact that the two skills they use are considered "skills" and not "spells." Most inturruptions only affect spells, or only have extra affect on spells, so there's almost nothing to disable them so that they can continue to just endlessly hit one after the other.

The easy fix: Make one, or both of those skills, spells - screwing the lameass build completely.

Thom · Jun 26, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Schorny, I highly doubt they meant AoE as a smiting skill. Sometimes testing can miss very obvious strategies. I think it was meant as a weaker energy management skill for the protection line allowing people to focus attributes. Odds are no one on the skill design team realized the potential for smiting amuse until it was too late.

I hope AoE doesn't go the way of ether renewal, because I really like the concept. Ensign's suggested nerf makes sense.

Schorny · Jun 27, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Schorny, I highly doubt they meant AoE as a smiting skill.

I don't know, but "smiting" was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that skill... And most of my friends ingame thought the same..

Though, yeah, we'll never know if it was intended.

Quote:

I hope AoE doesn't go the way of ether renewal, because I really like the concept. Ensign's suggested nerf makes sense.

I don't know if this nerf wouldn't be too weak, though it looks promising for a start. But 1 energy isn't much.

And yeah, Smiting should still be possible...

snikerz · Jun 27, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

my vote goes to Recurring Insecurity + Soulbarbs

Medion · Jun 27, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Air of Enchantment is obvious, free is overpowered. If you put the Divine Spirit condition on Air as well (cannot reduce the cost below 1) the skill is perfectly fair.

How would this nerf it? I mean; a smiter has 4 pips of regen, meaning in 1 second, he regens 1.33 energy. No one (except for FC-mesmers, but haven't seen those in smite form :P), can do more than 1 spell a second because aftercast is 0.75. So this wouldn't harm the smiters in any way, would it? They regen that 1 energy cost anyway don't they?

Lord Dark Genie · Jun 27, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

How would this nerf it? I mean; a smiter has 4 pips of regen, meaning in 1 second, he regens 1.33 energy. No one (except for FC-mesmers, but haven't seen those in smite form :P), can do more than 1 spell a second because aftercast is 0.75. So this wouldn't harm the smiters in any way, would it? They regen that 1 energy cost anyway don't they?

The thing is that they have to use their energy for other things as well. Balthazar's Aura alone is ~2 pips. And then there's still stuff like Zealot's, hex breaker, draw condition, JI or whatever other skills you bring that will need energy.

If AoE was nerfed to minimum cost of 1 energy per spell, they'd consume between 2 and 3 pips instead of nothing to cast their spammables.

About SB/RI :
I just wonder if putting RI always on top would be enough ? If you can remove it with a point hex removal, you cut half the damage. I don't know if that's enough though.
Maybe changing the heal reduction cap would help too.

lord of shadow · Jun 27, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

for aoe- i think making the energy cost 10, as well as the minimum of 1 energy would be fair. this means it actually costs energy to re-apply which is the most rediculous thing abuot it atm imo.

for sb/ri i simply think that ri should just restart the countdown when another hex is applied, instead of actually re-applying itself again- this would no affect it's use outside of sb/ri in any way- but it would stop the horrible amount of damage coming from that spike.

yesitsrob · Jun 27, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

The thing with just having RI resetting the counter will actually change things a little... as is, when it's reapplied it's always going to be the 2nd hex on the stack, which means expel hexes is going to remove it, if that was to change it wouldn't... We'll see anyway

TheOneMephisto · Jun 27, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

The thing with just having RI resetting the counter will actually change things a little... as is, when it's reapplied it's always going to be the 2nd hex on the stack, which means expel hexes is going to remove it, if that was to change it wouldn't... We'll see anyway

But then it wouldn't trigger SB, which is the important part. It isn't really dangerous on it's own. The danger is it getting re-applied every hex, which doubles the SB spike damage.

The Real Roy Keane · Jun 27, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

They'll have to do something about AoE,; even were it not overpowered, which it is, the community outcry occuring at the moment would force Anet into action. I sincerely hope that Touch Rangers DON'T get nerfed- it would be nothing but a triumph for whinging, incompetent RA and AB enthusiasts who couldn't be bothered coming up with glaringly obvious build counters.

At the other end of the spectrum, there's a few skills that could do with a little buffing:
-Ineptitude: I see no reason to use this skill. Ever.
-Hundred Blades: It's been gimped since the dawn of time, in fact, the non elite Sun and Moon Slash is markedly better.
-Seeping Wound: The worst elite in the game, bar none.
-Double Dragon: I don't think I've seen anyone use this skill, even in RA, where meleemancers, Earthquake Warriors and Mending Rangers run rampant.
Savage Slash: It got its 1/4 second cast..at the expense of being unusable.
-Crippling Shot, Gale, Blackout, Distortion, Offering of Blood and E surge, for old times sake.

Vindexus · Jun 27, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Ineptitude is a very powerful skill.

I'd like to see Healing Burst get a buff. Maybe change "lose 5 energy" to "gain 5 energy"? That's how much I think this skill sucks.

AE reducing cost to 1e sounds all right. 10e cost seems fair as well. However they nerf it, smiting better still be viable.

stueyman2099 · Jun 27, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

SB/RI is retarded.
I Like Ensigns Idea for AoE
Can't think of anything else atm.

The list of skills that need a buff is far too long to be worth going into.

wren e · Jun 27, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Me personally, I would like to see that aoe have alonger recharge, instead of 5 more like between 10-15 seconds. While this will nerf the constant spamming of enchantments, it will not nerf the build itself too much, just bring it more in line with everything else. For sb/ri I would buff the counters to it. Lower the recharge of shiedling hands to 5 secs and increase cost to 10 energy ( just like prot spirit), increase again the bonus heal to kiss, and lower converts casting time to 1 sec and cost to 10 energy. By doing this to sb/ri, while still a powerful spike, is easier to counter if these skills buffs are added. Overall, a few more buffs to some of the elites and other skills that never get used, and please to the love of god, change otyugh's cry into a skill that can be used instead of the waste of space, a skill point, and gold if you purchased it that it is now.

DieInBasra · Jun 27, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

For sb/ri I would buff the counters to it

The problem I find with that is that buffing the counters also weakens normal hex builds, which aren't that powerful to begin with thanks to Heal Party and the addition of Expel Hexes in factions. With the exception of the Sheilding Hands buff, stuff like a better convert, and another bonus to kiss kill would murder any hex heavy builds, not just sb/ri.

Though now that I look at it, I agree with ensign, the build should just be weakened, not made unuseable.

Drewfense · Jun 27, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

At the other end of the spectrum, there's a few skills that could do with a little buffing:
-Ineptitude: I see no reason to use this skill. Ever.
-Hundred Blades: It's been gimped since the dawn of time, in fact, the non elite Sun and Moon Slash is markedly better.
-Seeping Wound: The worst elite in the game, bar none.
-Double Dragon: I don't think I've seen anyone use this skill, even in RA, where meleemancers, Earthquake Warriors and Mending Rangers run rampant.
Savage Slash: It got its 1/4 second cast..at the expense of being unusable.
-Crippling Shot, Gale, Blackout, Distortion, Offering of Blood and E surge, for old times sake.

WTF lol...did I misread this? Those skills are some of the best and most commonly used skills in the game already... Ineptitude is a heavy warrior hate. Crippling Shot rangers are still decent although I prefer a water ele runner. Never been a fan of OoB on a boon prot, even before the nerf, but now it is still a viable form of energy management on hex necros. Back when I was a pve-er I would always include a Arcane Echo + E Surge on the mezmers bar in FoW for a quick 160 AoE. In PvP, surge mezmers still owns most monks. Distortion still is the best way to protect a Mo/Me heal monk and mezmers. Blackout owns adrenaline spikes. Gale is perfect for stopping heals during a spike or for spike teams with projectiles (FC air). I just have not the slightest clue where you are coming from saying that these skills have to be made better. I think they are very well balanced right now.

Edit: Just saw Vin's post, yea I agree, I think the range on Healing Burst is way to small. Atm I would take heal area over burst ><

One thing I want to see changed is make healing touch a skill! If touch rangers get to abuse skills, monks should too!

Isil`Zha · Jun 27, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

They'll have to do something about AoE,; even were it not overpowered, which it is, the community outcry occuring at the moment would force Anet into action. I sincerely hope that Touch Rangers DON'T get nerfed- it would be nothing but a triumph for whinging, incompetent RA and AB enthusiasts who couldn't be bothered coming up with glaringly obvious build counters.

Clearly you didn't bother to read my entire post.

Fenix Swiftblade · Jun 28, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Schorny, I highly doubt they meant AoE as a smiting skill. Sometimes testing can miss very obvious strategies. I think it was meant as a weaker energy management skill for the protection line allowing people to focus attributes. Odds are no one on the skill design team realized the potential for smiting amuse until it was too late.

I hope AoE doesn't go the way of ether renewal, because I really like the concept. Ensign's suggested nerf makes sense.

The bosses you cap AoE from use it with Zealots Fire and Reversal of Fortune (I think Guardian too, but I know RoF and Zealots for sure). I think they had smiting firmly in mind when they designed it.

EDIT: Just checked GuildWiki, of the two bosses listed, only one has Zealots, but one is enough to say they knew about it's applications with smiting.

Ensign · Jun 28, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

A 10 energy cost on Air of Enchantment would destroy the skill utterly, making it far too expensive to smite with, and virtually impossible to get energy out of otherwise. I don't think the goal is to make things unplayable, it's to bring them to a level where they don't dominate anymore.

There are a ton of skills that need buffs if they are to be played seriously, there really isn't a need to fixate on a few skills that are irrelevant for reasons beyond their power level.

Peace,
-CxE