Curse

fatboyslimerr · Jul 04, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

So you've got yourself a nice balanced build and perhaps sacrificed the necro (pun intended) for an assassin, who's job is to infiltrate enemy base and kill off NPCs as well as create a distraction to seperate enemy team, making it easier to hold the flag (not always true but that seems like a reasonable statement).

The point being, can a lone assassin do this job well enough to make him/her a worthwhile addition to your balanced build or does it require perhaps a dual assassin combo or the aid of one of the warriors to come along with him. In which case (other than using recall warriors) whats the best aid-de-assassin warrior especially for the non recall friendly maps like warriors isle which have nasty gates and such like to restrict shadow stepping.

Ideas being thrown at me are: the AoD swords warrior, so some kind of death's charge warrior.

Can you folks that utilise a lone assassin effectively in a balanced build gimme your advice (especially warrior's isle users) ?
Cheers

DieInBasra · Jul 04, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

In the word of someone from GWOnline, not that I agree with anything esle he says "you can't just throw an assassin in a balanced build and expect it to be the same, you need to make your build around the assassin". Well, he didn't say exactly that, but that was the jist.

I think, personally, you'd be better off with an illusion mesmer ganker, or maybe a differant war, if all you're doing is takeing one or two parts of your balanced build out and replacing them with gankers.

If you really want to stick with an assassin, I'd say that maybe rip off Hex H's expel sword war, or maybe make him a charge war instead. Play have used an assassin and cripshot ranger gank team pretty well, too. I guess it could be done with a single assassin, but gankers are usually used in pairs.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 04, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Usually gankers are used in groups. You usually have to try to plan your build around them, since the gankers have to be self-sufficient. This can often interfere with their dependability and usage in full 8v8 fights.

Watch WM's games for good examples of assassin gankers. I wouldn't suggest ripping off their builds exactly though, because they tend to be extremely hard to run.

fatboyslimerr · Jul 04, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

WM are on another level when it comes to using assassins. Arcane mimicry and arcane echo ???, they must think differently to us.

I don't really want to take 2 assassins and I don't want to have to sacrifice another player to make a gank squad. What I want is an assassin and then another player who has a fully functional role in 8 vs 8 but then can break away to aid the assassin, which isn't really just throwing in an assassin to a balanced build.

I've seen iB using 2 W/A recall warriors but that only really works on druid's isle due to lack of gates and walls.

Personally I think its gonna be one of the warriors who'll leave the group to join the assassin but the standard shock warrior isn't self sufficient enough to do so. Perhaps an assassin and an air spiker (with draw condition and heal party) could also work. They both use speed buffs (dark escape and windborne speed) to rush to the enemies base, open the gate and just pump out the damage to their NPCs.

Has anyone got a tried and tested single assassin balanced build with standard players who can tear off from the main group and aid the assassin basically.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 04, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

WM are on another level when it comes to using assassins. Arcane mimicry and arcane echo ???, they must think differently to us.

I don't really want to take 2 assassins and I don't want to have to sacrifice another player to make a gank squad. What I want is an assassin and then another player who has a fully functional role in 8 vs 8 but then can break away to aid the assassin, which isn't really just throwing in an assassin to a balanced build.

I've seen iB using 2 W/A recall warriors but that only really works on druid's isle due to lack of gates and walls.

Personally I think its gonna be one of the warriors who'll leave the group to join the assassin but the standard shock warrior isn't self sufficient enough to do so. Perhaps an assassin and an air spiker (with draw condition and heal party) could also work. They both use speed buffs (dark escape and windborne speed) to rush to the enemies base, open the gate and just pump out the damage to their NPCs.

Has anyone got a tried and tested single assassin balanced build with standard players who can tear off from the main group and aid the assassin basically.

Well, I forget which guild but one of the playoffs guilds used an illusion mesmer/assassin with recall and dark escape I think. Another fairly effective person is a Mo/A smiter with recall.

Greedy Gus · Jul 04, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I wrote a build that uses an assassin and a sword war with empathic removal as a 2-man infiltration team, used to kill NPCs but mostly to deal with the enemy split and flagger.

DieInBasra · Jul 05, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Group therapy [hug] rank 64
-Evis axe /a with recall
-charge shock sword
-Standard AoD assassin
-smiter /a with recall
-cripshot with blackout
-water runner(odd one, /a with trident, dark excape, shadow refuge)
-Blessed light
-boon prot

I know that doesn't help your need for the no recall warrior thing, but if you're running gank you should proabably switch GHs anyway, like if you were to run caster spike or rspike you'd want to switch to Fire GH. Anyway, that's a template you can use I guess. Both wars had healsig.

Quote:

I wrote a build that uses an assassin and a sword war with empathic removal as a 2-man infiltration team, used to kill NPCs but mostly to deal with the enemy split and flagger.

Sounds pretty cool. ever since Swordfisher posted his empathic removal sin I've been wanting to make a build/see a build that uses something like that.

Thom · Jul 05, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

First, I really don't like the term "balanced build" which is used to describe an average "pressure/spike build". Really what you are talking about is going from a straight up strategy to a gank strategy. You need to look at how you plan to use your ganker and what you are losing from your pressure/spike.

I could outline about 5 different ways to use gankers, but my guild does quite a bit in that direction so I best keep quiet. I will say that a single assassin killing npc's in a normal pressure/spike build isn't normally enough to create the advantage you want, unless you have some player on your team who is a significantly better player.

Greedy Gus · Jul 05, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

The problem with a single player ganking NPCs in general ladder play, opposed to tournament play, is that it's a VOD strategy, and playing to VOD in ladder games just limits how many you can play per night.

The enemy can realistically use their flashbot ele to keep pushing flags out fairly often, maybe they can send someone back to pressure your infiltration character, and mostly play 7v6 at the stand (disregarding runners).

In my opinion, in a regular ladder game if you want to use infiltration characters, you do it because you *want* to force an enemy split. Hopefully one small enough that they'll not split as well as you (many teams are prepared for 4/4 split much better than small skirmish splits), or to get rid of some of their flagstand defenses to roll them there. So a well designed 6/2 split is better than 7/1 in my opinion.

Patrograd · Jul 05, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I think that given the correct build for the assassin, and a very good player playing the assassin, this can be a very, very strong tactic, because an assassin cannot be ignored wandering around in your base, and your typical flagrunning emo seems to have great difficulty coping defensively against this type of character, meaning that a typical balanced build will need to send more than one person away from the stand to deal with the threat, which in turn creates unequal numbers at the stand in your favour.

fatboyslimerr · Jul 05, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

So lets say in a non assassin balanced build, it might be possibly for an air spiker (not the flag runner) and one of the warriors to break off for a 6/2 split, attacking the enemy base forcing enemy to split. Would this be better than any assassin + warrior split ???

I just think assassins are too good to ignore but I don't want to base a balanced build totally around the assassin either.

icantthinkofonerightnow · Jul 05, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Warrior/Necromancer
Level: 20

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Swordsmanship: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 10 (9+1)
Curses: 5

Sever Artery (Swordsmanship)
Gash (Swordsmanship)
Final Thrust (Swordsmanship)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Frenzy (Warrior other)
Sprint (Strength)
Plague Signet [Elite] (Curses)
Resurrection Signet ()

Probably not the best character, but it seems it would work. Sprint in, kill NPCs with Frenzy+Sever+Gash+Final+Heal and then Sprint out. Plague Signet is for Pin Down that the NPCs use. Transfer it to the enemy that comes for your and Sprint away.

romO · Jul 05, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

So you've got yourself a nice balanced build and perhaps sacrificed the necro (pun intended) for an assassin, who's job is to infiltrate enemy base and kill off NPCs as well as create a distraction to seperate enemy team, making it easier to hold the flag

I think you may be trying to force it. You don't need an assassin. If you want to kill NPCs when you need to, then make a character build or two more viable for the situation. And splitting to ease the defense at the flagstand seems like a waste, as it shows insufficiency of the base defense, and another slot could be thrown in at the flagstand to better suit such a purpose.

Zeldawind · Jul 06, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Well, I forget which guild but one of the playoffs guilds used an illusion mesmer/assassin with recall and dark escape I think. Another fairly effective person is a Mo/A smiter with recall.

i think you mean RenO ive seen them using it. It was quit a interesting build.

The Red Knight · Jul 07, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I like caltrops leaping jungle twisting aod guy for running flags or being at flag stand

2 warrior 1 assassin spike is pretty nuts

. you have low dagger hits to trigger on rofs instead of big warrior hits.

Celab · Jul 12, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I dont think this thread wants any particular builds but ive been experimenting with some and they seem quite effective.

Although i do see some tactical advantage, i dont think it is all that important.

Lando Griffen · Jul 12, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I was just messing around with a friend's guild, we had one guy who'd been playing the game for 2 weeks, a level 19 ranger, and a bunch of random builds. Anyway, we came up against a team that decided to copy War Machine's arcane mimicry assassins. They sorta had the build right, but they didn't really know what they were supposed to do. I think they killed 1 npc and in the mean time, we pushed their team back to their own base and still maintained control of the flag. Don't implement an assassin just for the purpose of soloing the base, play the game based on the circumstances, and if the situation calls for it, go ahead and beat up some npc's. Anyway, only WM can pull off crazy assassin ganking, nobody else is asian enough. If you're not dedicated enough to see yourself in the playoffs anyway, just do the build you have the most fun playing, and don't stick to one build. Some guilds are famous for farming rank with a single build, but flexibility is what makes you a winner.

Tamriel Cyrodiil · Jul 13, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

No, you dont' need the assassin. However, while I was watching the guild War Machine, now #1, I saw them running two A/Me's. Their idea was to have them both run around, as a team, and kill off people they saw. The idea worked nicely, spamming Distortion and Dark Escape.

ukaszg · Jul 15, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

how about using sword warrior with auspicious parry as a ganker?
npc's don't stop shooting at it like players :P

Skuld · Jul 16, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamriel Cyrodiil

No, you dont' need the assassin. However, while I was watching the guild War Machine, now #1, I saw them running two A/Me's. Their idea was to have them both run around, as a team, and kill off people they saw. The idea worked nicely, spamming Distortion and Dark Escape.

They were using triple shadow form weren't they? just saying that was the focus, not distortion and escape