Curse

Da Cebuano · Jun 17, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

As a Pvp officer on a pve guild, I find it tough getting organized for gvg.
One of the problems I've encountered is that "Time of the essence" in which its very tough to get 8 people online for pvp(we have alot of people but most are pve) at any given moment. Its always about 2-5 wanting pvp while everybody else wants none of that. Also very tough due to my requirement for a roster is that they should have a working mic to talk and listen, we have our own TS server. I'm given the task to basically include everyone who wants to pvp cause we all play for fun, but at the same time, winning is fun and getting the guild name out there by breaking into the ranks is even more fun. I don't want to alienate anyone, but at this point, I'm considering hiring a roster specifically for pvp.

Anyone else had this problem and turned into a success story? I'm one of 4 pvp officers and currently the most active of the bunch. 1 other is my friend and he gets on mainly at late night and the 2 other I don't count on and they really don't get on much. The problem I have mainly is approach, its somewhat intimidating to organize 8 or more people and having to find out their strs and classes to play as well as builds to use. On top of that, most if not for 1-3 have never done pvp much, so I wouldn't even know when to start w/ alot of these guys. I made a post on our own website about putting their stats and info for a gvg lineup I con conjure, yet these people who kept bugging me on starting the gvg didn't even bother to sign up. I feel like abandoning the thought, yet the thought of glory lingers.

thoughts?

stueyman2099 · Jun 17, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

There comes a time when you simply need to put your foot down. Save the Dolyaks had a similar problem (though most of the members were interested in PvP from the start) with getting groups together. At this point, we do employ a roster of 8 people and keep and everyone else who is able to play one of the characters in our 8 man build (always the same one) as an alternate for when some one on the roster is unable to show up due to personal reasons. It should also be mentioned that we only GvG 3 nights a week, but when we do, we ussualy play for 3~4 hours with the same people.

Anyway, put it in your guild announcement that your're doing this. Anyone who doesn't sign up and then complains later probably doesn't have the patience to set up a solid GvG team. I'd also recomend sticking to 1 build for your group at least for a start. This lets people get used to the leader ship in the matches, and what's expected of them during a match. It also might be good to let everyone one know that they will be berated for mistakes and expected to learn from them. Some people simply cannot handle this, but those people don't have as much potential as those who can take a grain of salt.

Xasew · Jun 17, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

If the rest of the guild isn't as committed as you are and you wish to actually compete, find another guild. I mean it doesn't sound too good if people don't even bother to sign up.

Da Cebuano · Jun 17, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Don't get me wrong, I'm comfortable as where the guild is or w/e, its just that we can create a pvp section of the guild and the people who indeed want to do it aren't really committed, or atleast that; enough to make it work out smoothly.

At this rate, I'll consider stuey's suggestion of announcing and hiring people. First I'll talk to the few people that I can count on and let it happen from there. I hate to spam to invite new people in, but I guess it'll have to be.

pah01 · Jun 18, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Well now I have been in your situation.

First thing in PVP guild you need a good leader. This is the guy who gets everyone online to play at the same time and sorts out problems. You really dont want politcis developing between players in a PVP team because this will drive you all up the wall.

Then you want 12-16 players who are commited to PVP and are willing to PVP when asked by guild leader and officer.

You also need to have a build that you get used to as a team. This needs to be set by a strong leader who stops and stupid disagreements about skills and builds.

All this may be possible in a PVE main guild but you need one officer to be in charge of it and sort it. It takes a lot of work.

Sam

Da Cebuano · Jun 18, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Yeah, problem is, I already encountered 1 HUGE hurdle, in which the guild leader assigned 4 officers and We "officers" need to do a meeting b4 anything gets, done, its some sort of what I feel as "nerdery"(although much respect to the Guild leader cause he is a cool guy to hang w/) in game that kinda leaves my jaw hanging like "WTF for?".

I'll try to talk to the guy and see if I can get things worked out, if not then I'll ask to see if I can make a sub section of the guild just for pvp under ideal conditions. I'm planning on buying that 06 edition of GW and adding the items to my main account while stationing the 06 account in europe to farm >_>, then I'll probly put this 2nd account in that guild and POSSIBLY just get w/ a pvp pure guild so that I'll atleast continue to progress ingame and not stay where I always am. That way I get to hang out w/ the friends I've made here and still get to pvp in a high level environment.

Anyway, thanks for ya'll advices, I'll post here what happens next and the developments that are gonna happen. I doubt things will be favorable, too much managing going on around here.

pah01 · Jun 18, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

No democracy in a PVP guild. At the beginning you need a focused leader. This is almost a pre requisite.

Sam

kryshnysh · Jun 18, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

We're a PvE guild first, moving into PvP slowly. We don't have the same requirements. We don't require 8 from our own guild. We don't require a working mic. We don't require any experience. Has that hurt us competitively at times? Yes. But a number of us have left PvP guilds for being overly competitive, thats not our goal.

The first thing we did was to start/join an alliance with a couple other PvE/PvP mixed guilds. While we can't always get 8 people together for our scheduled events, when we get 5, we can then fill in with allies (we could do it at four, but I dislike going from four guildies - no particular reason). We get 5 p people about twice a week, we've had 8 people every time.

We've also made some friends and that has helped us out as well. In fact, the more we push through and PvP, the more people we find that are willing to PvP with us, and the more we end up with more than 8 people wanting to PvP.

As for scheduled events, I harassed people that it wasn't going to happen without schedules up in the appropriate thread. Not everyone who wants to PvP posts up their schedules, but slowly people add them and things progress. Those who want to PvP and don't post good times for themselves... they get to fill in or not as we have room when we get going. Its harder on those who can't set up a schedule due to erratic family or work commitments.

jummeth · Jun 18, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Am afraid there is no easy answer to this one.

One main point I picked up though is, you cannot expect to uphold a high rank if you want everybody to participate as to not alienate anybody.

My suggestion is, not to worry about rank at first, just go in for fun. Of course have some organisations, run GvGs with a simple build like:

2 Wars
2 Ed Mes
War Hater
2 Boons
1 Runner

1k+ ranks, you will not have to worry about splits too much
better than 1k you will start getting the splits etc. Just have a set team to go back to defend.

After a short while, you will recognise who are the PvPers and who really don't like PvPing. If there is only 4-5 people and you are waiting for more ppl, just goto TA while you are waiting, this serves 2 purposes: 1> passes the time, 2> gains faction for skill unlocks.

The important part is to just take charge and get as many people to participate as possible.

Good Luck

Loch · Jun 18, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

When you say you're planning on "going into PvP slowly," I get the impression that most of the members really aren't into it, and they're more than likely going to PvP just as something to do.

What you actually want are people who are really into PvP, who plan on practicing up and improving their skill, not people who are more preoccupied with farming. You want players who jump at the chance to GvG.

Yanman.be · Jun 18, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Slick Nick, does the above post have anything to do with the current topic??

Do all the players REALLY need a microphone? In my guild there are some who don't...on ventrilo, we have Microsoft Sam saying ' number 4 galed' , ' blind on 2 ' etc...for those who don't have vent...

I'd say you start with TA first, get your gladiator rank, showoff at the rest of the guild, if they want something cool as that, let them pvp...

Da Cebuano · Jun 18, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

IMHO yes, they do need a mic, why? Its very simple. A mic allows you to communicate w/ other on spot, no stopping to type and allow for greater communication. Allows you to talk to the person and have a convo w/o having a basically 1 side conversation w/ the other guy just typing. Also, talking to the person allows for to get to know each other. Trust, me having people talk on a server allows for better bonds, therefore they work better together. How many guilds fail cause they don't have very good communication? too many.

Also, I'm not looking for shooting for the top at the start, I'm just looking to build a pvp group w/ potential. I already have a rank 3, a gladiator title is just how leet I am in lower arenas, not really something desirable, I doubt they would even care much for titles, so thats wasted effort right there.

As much as I don't like the sound of it, I understand what the other guy said about there is no democracy in a serious pvp team, although we are not serious, I would like to take care of business when it has to be done. I had a bad experience w/ guildies who I consider friends when I play and these guys are my boys, but damn, did the handle fly that night. It was in the elite urgoz mission and almost none of the guildies had the sense to be serious and realize that being here is no joking matter, we screw around all the time, that time was the wrong time to do that. We failed, I blamed it on the lack of general direction and lack of effort for cooperation on our part, we represented our guild to the pugs in a very bad way which I was disappointed at. I do not want that to happen should a pvp team be formed in our guild.

Anyways, I'm obviously not experienced in handling or ever leading a team in pvp, but the focus and determination is there, but I just don't have the people for it. Its kinda sad, I'll talk to the guild 2morrow, hopefully things get resolved and we can get some sense of direction.

kryshnysh · Jun 18, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Cebuano

Also very tough due to my requirement for a roster is that they should have a working mic to talk and listen, we have our own TS server. I'm given the task to basically include everyone who wants to pvp cause we all play for fun, but at the same time, winning is fun and getting the guild name out there by breaking into the ranks is even more fun.

It sounds to me like your guild wants to be casual about GvG, but you want to be quite serious about it. Does your guild leader support you being so serious? If so, start recruiting.

The other route of getting into GvG as PvE guild with minimal PvP interest is probably going to be frustrating, and not short at all. It requires constantly responding that people need to post on the forums to set up times for GvG. If your guild wants to go this route, are you prepared to work with them on it? Or do you want to hand it off to someone else?

Lando Griffen · Jun 18, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

My first guild was a pve guild, and it was nearly impossible to get people to gvg. What was even harder, was getting pvp'ers to stay. I think it's important to go ahead and get a build together, and make it clear that if they want to gvg they need to run something from the build--no grab 8 and go groups, because I'm sure you'll notice that people who insist on doing things their own way aren't going to be very helpful on a team. Once you have your build, either encourage your members to pvp, or recruit some that will. I know what you mean, but everyone in every guild started out like that at some point. You can still have fun, but you'll definately need to set some rules. So, set up a build, let people decide what they'd like to play, and then set up a time to play, and make sure everyone can be there. Alternately, you could join an alliance with 1,000 members and just ask for a team over alliance chat

Anyway, good luck to you, and if you need someone to help you out, IGN= sir lando griffen. I've found that regaurdless of "skill" level, it's much better to have a group of friends that works well together. Just having that makes you better than 70% of the competative guilds IMO.

torquemada · Jun 19, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I'm having similar problems in my own guild. We can barely scrape enough people for TA, not to mention HA or GvG. We have PvE'ers and some newbs and only a few dedicated PvP'ers getting their talent wasted Pugging in PvP areas.

Majority of our problems ensue from the fact that we are croatian guild and are recruiting only croats. An ill choice, it seems, coz we are unable to find solid "fresh meat". Also, I'm not feeling up for dictatorship. I found TS server, put web+forums up, and I'm getting tired of it all. Moreover, my enthusiasam for GW in general is weakening.

And yes, we were Allianced to a croatian guild at some point, and while it seemed that things are getting better, an insidious blow was struck at our guild by inviting my guildie to gvg with them in 6xW,1xA,1xAlesia format. After that he got called noobzor and whatnot, I left the alliance with a sinking feeling that things aren't to improve

So you see, I need advice also on the matter.

EDIT: And yes, I'm the guild leader. In fact, that is so because I led some people (who are core to our guild) into exile from our last one, and was pretty much forced to be a leader. I don't think I'm cut out for leadership roles, though. I'd be pretty content to demote myself to officer role if I could only find a competent leader.

dansamy · Jun 19, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Tips for getting into GvG/HA from a previously PvE standpoint:

1)Start with a one night a week all call. Let anyone who shows up play. (If they lack properly equipped PvE characters, make sure they roll up a PvP character.)

2) Watch Obs Mode matches to see commonly used builds and think of ways you'd emulate them and ways you'd like to counter them. Make very basic and defensive builds since your monks won't be used to the pressure. 3 wrriors, 2 boon, 1 rit, 1 HP emo, 1 flagger (which could be another HP emo).

3) Be insistent about TS/Vent. It's pretty important.

I would recruit only if you can't get a regular group going.

torquemada · Jun 19, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Thanks for advice. For my part, I have no problems setting up team build (or copying one, viable options are well explored).

The problem is the PvE part of guild that ocassonally agrees to go with us (and learn) refuses to listen, forcing their PvE ways, then fleeing in shame after couple of flawlesses upon us, rather than listen to constructive criticism (which is very gentle from our side). Moreso, I feel we are alienating from each other, there are some great friends I made that are PvE exclusively and there is a portion of PvP players that feel almost disgusted by PvE (I'm also not that far from that opinion though I understand the "casual" principle) so I'm feeling our PvPing will crush some great relationships...and I am quite unable to go back to PvE. When I do force myself to PvE, I do it watching TV besides, completely unfocused. What happens is I go thru missions with empty skillbar and unspecced. I don't want to grief other players by playing thus, but neither I want to force someone to PvP, especially if they feel so uncomfortable (although everyone did at some point).

So for me (and also my boon-protting gf) it's PvP or giving up on GW completely.

Tark Alkerk · Jun 19, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

i cannot stress engough having the improtance of having vent/ts
but as other people have said, watch observer mode and try emulate the build in a way.
most teams run 2 monks,2 warriors, in just about all stiuations, with a few other spell casters.
after u have found a build that works and wins u a few games stick with it.
and if u get beaten it is important to go over why u lost after the match and where u can improve or where u won the match and they lost.
importantly your team needs a good leader, because it is very easy for a shouting match to occure over ts/vent when the match starts going pear shapped.
also encourage some of the more pvp-orrianted members to come to ta when your not playing gvg, so that u know there skills and ablitys.
and if your not rdy for gvg, try doing hoh with your planed gvg players and see how they work as a team and pick and chosse who u think is best.

Rhuobhe · Jun 19, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Nick

I think a Ranger/assassin is good because you attack them from distance but if they come to you take out your assassin side so you have a long range and you can be close up.

Yes, Ranger/Assassin is the best class combo because they can attack from range

...

Anyway, my guild was in pretty much the exact same situation as yours DeCebuano.

First thing that I would reccomend is ONLY play GvG with a build. Allowing your guild members to play whatever they want will not work 99% of the time. Play something that has easy roles, for example a shock warrior is pretty easy to play. Make sure you have at least decent monks.

It is important for the person running the match and calling the shots to not be a monk unless they are exeptionally good.

Also I reccomend taking a leave and playing with GvG guilds to get a taste of what it's like, learn strategy etc and then bring that knowledge (and perhaps a few friends as guests) back to your own guild and work from there. That's what I did and it worked pretty well.

Kestral Pureheart · Jun 20, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

It is almost impossible to do well in PVP without at least being able to hear. Some classes can just about cope without a mic, and we have a number of members who can't speak. We work round it but it is not ideal.

The main problem we find is the time it takes to get a team organised. We have plenty of people who want to PVP, but we all have lives, and so not everyone is on at the same time. Our allies do fill in the numbers for us, but if we are working on a specific build it can be hard to fill the slots. Also, you get a team together, you do one match, then someone has to go....

However, if you are new to PVP and don't care about rank, then let people play (within reason) what they like. We did this to start with and it got people more keen on taking part. Also, try unranked against allies. or friendly guilds if you don't have allies that can do this... There are plenty of guilds looking for unranked on the fourms, and it is an easier place to start that meeting rank 100 teams in your first battles.

Timetabling things in does help. We PVP other nights too if there is interest, but we currently have two nights a week scheduled for competive PVP, and one night for training (we are not a PVP guild...we are pretty balanced between PVE and PVP....)