Curse

Phelann · Jun 18, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xasew

We have no defence against casters. None at all. Which means that against caster spike we always have to split.
We faced RUS and did a 4-4 split. The game ended in our warrior+smiter hitting their GL, while they killed ours, so it was a matter of a few dozen seconds. So saying a full split is suicide isn't exactly true...
But, I still agree that if you have a build that allows you to leave 2 Monks in defence while having enough offence in your split in their base, do so instead of a full split.

Well its not suicide for you because you have 2 monks in each split, even if one is a rof spamming smiter^_^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Not really. I'm sure you've seen Rift run FC Airspike?

http://ladder.guildwars.com/ladder.dll?tag=Rift

Rifts finished in the top 5 with fc air spike. With balanced they can barely breach the top 20. They aren't bad players, but they were clearly relying on a gimmick to stay up there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I've already thought of a lot of this but thanks for the help. My current thoughts are mass enchant removal in the form of a gaze of contempt necro as well as possibly having a warrior with strip enchant and plague touch (probably hammer warrior). The idea of the Ele and warrior making a charge at the base seems like a great plan because they are unlikely to send their whole team back (if they are we will get morale) so their spike will diminish slightly

I think Air Spike is easy to play but can be played very well as well. The first air spike team I played against used hex breaker to counter my enchant removal and an ice snarer to stop dodging and delay our flag runner. They were obviously quite talented but I still think its gimmicy.

A ritualist seems like the most obvious solution but I'm having problems fitting one into my build without losing damage output. As well as a BO ranger working with me (mesmer) who also uses blackout

so we can affectively take 2 people out of the spike + any KD targets my warriors are bashing.

Thanks again for the help. I'm quite looking forward to the next FC air spikers we face who will wonder why they are never enchanted

This is, imo, the wrong solution. You should just change the way you play against them and if you absolutely must counterbuild for a single type of enemy (something thats never really a good idea) just bring a ritualist with shelter, since they are useful in alot of other situations as well.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 18, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I know but my current build is pretty flexible as it is. The Ritualist would replace the necro hex spammer, who is a valuable member of the team (and is vital for enchant removal using gaze of contempt). He is also the principle warrior hate dude using enfeeble and faintheartedness. If there is some ritualist skills which could provide similar pressure as hexes would then I will consider a ritualist. I've bin looking at rupture soul because of its nice AoE damage + AoE blind but I'm still wondering if a ritualist could replace my trusty hex spammer.

Just to give you some idea I currently use 2 shock warriors (axes or axe and sword) 1 expel hexes shutdown mesmer (played by me) 2 boonos 1 necro hexos 1 E/Mo flag runner with extinguish and a BO ranger. I suppose the ritualist could replace the BO ranger but he is very important for crippling warriors/flag runner as well as spreading poison and blacking out during spikes etc.

Oh decisions decisions ...

LaserLight · Jun 18, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

If I was worried about FC Air I'd go with a Rit/El over the Cripshot. Use the aforementioned defensive Spirits and grab Gales and such as well, or perhaps Water snares, so he can make himself useful against other teams as well. Ritualists combine very well with a lot of the Elementalist's supporting spells (though they don't get the spam factor in Energy Storage) because their primary skills are very energy-efficient. Ten energy every thirty seconds or so, under Ritual Lord, and your defenses are set.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 18, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

So some kind of spirit spamming gale warder ritualist ?? lol
Have you got a build of such a divine support player ?

Zui · Jun 18, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

Rifts finished in the top 5 with fc air spike. With balanced they can barely breach the top 20. They aren't bad players, but they were clearly relying on a gimmick to stay up there.

Agreed. I was responding to the guy that said 'FC Air spike is for noobs.'

Brutal · Jun 19, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Just to reinforce what others have already said..I guested for a guild the other night when they were running FC Airspike. We demolished a few balanced builds until we came up against an enemy with a spirit spamming Rt. I was playing in the backline as one of the monks but I could see Shelter and Union spirits almost constantly and the air spike was struggling alot to kill off any of the enemy so I'd say this could definately be a counter to this 'gimmick' build.

Zeldawind · Jun 19, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Rift barely top 20 whit balanced i wouldnt shout that out to loud. They can play more then FC air to gain in the top.

And FC air spike gimmick? Not so sure bout that just read some things ppl said if it was gimmick you can play it correctly whitout much harm but as far i know there are maybe 5 guilds who can split whit it (Rift and RUS are known for it) and maybe some other guilds who really practiced it a lot. But if it was a gimmick it would be like iway in tombs. Everyone runs it everyone can play it simple easy, yay?

And disrupting well FC air is most of the time overkill on a 60 AL target. Cuz if you spike well it would be even hard to catch the afterspike cuz of the fast casting of the mesmers. So interrupting 1 wouldnt be enough on a 60 AL target 2/3 prolly.

Patrograd · Jun 19, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldawind

So interrupting 1 wouldnt be enough on a 60 AL target 2/3 prolly.

if you are only interrupting/disrupting one of the spikers then you aren't disrupting the spike. the idea of spike disruption is to make the spike catcheable by a good infuser - to do this you will need to disrupt at least 2 spikers in most builds - note that disrupt is not necessarily the same thing as interrupt.

sir lockt · Jun 20, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Indeed a lot of FC-air is out there... We encountered a fairly high ranked FC-air team last week and although we where put on significant DP disadvantage we managed to win simply through interupts.

Our split wasnt the best so only some NPCs where killed, but this gave us the edge on VoD. Interupts did the real winning. Even with FC you can easilly interupt. Just send your warriors in for massive pressure and let them spread KDs around. Make sure you have a Cry of Frustration somewhere... and we happened to have a Gale on our flashbot... who seriously irritated their spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrograd

to do this you will need to disrupt at least 2 spikers in most builds - note that disrupt is not necessarily the same thing as interrupt.

agree: CoF ftw...

Vaga · Jun 20, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

You guys hould just listen Phelann, they provided the most useful information.

Dragannia · Jun 20, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir lockt

Indeed a lot of FC-air is out there... We encountered a fairly high ranked FC-air team last week and although we where put on significant DP disadvantage we managed to win simply through interupts.

Our split wasnt the best so only some NPCs where killed, but this gave us the edge on VoD. Interupts did the real winning. Even with FC you can easilly interupt. Just send your warriors in for massive pressure and let them spread KDs around. Make sure you have a Cry of Frustration somewhere... and we happened to have a Gale on our flashbot... who seriously irritated their spike.

agree: CoF ftw...

Cry can easily be countered. We met a Blood spike team the other day, with 2 Criers. After the first cry, they all simply split up, and you couldn't catch more than one of them with a CoF.

shadex · Jun 20, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

FC air spike is weird, it's one of the few non balance builds that is flexable enough to play at high levels. It has the ability to split, to spike, to pressure to some degree, and interupt and keep warriors blind. It's a very nice solution to a standard balance build that puts all its marbles into a warrior spike, without losing all the advantages of a balance build. And come on, enough of saying rifts can't play anything else. They made the top 20 with balance, and wither that be #1 or #20, that means they have good players.

Ensign · Jun 20, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Ward of Stability is surprisingly good against Mes/Ele spike. Without Gales the build really isn't all that strong. It's probably easier to fit into what you normally run than more specialized counters as well.

Peace,
-CxE

Bowstring Badass · Jul 18, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Some people play some builds better then others like my guild can do r-spike but we suck totaly at b-spike.

But yeah. Try and split them and I like the ElE attune nerf.

Slit Wrists · Jul 19, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

I met a fast cast air spike last w-e.

We were getting killed and the blinding flash owned us quite bad ( 2 warriors build ).

I was the axe warrior with shields up so I decided to go and gank some npcs. I managed to kill all the npcs outisde the lords room, including the 2 footmen and the archer outside the base. They didn't even send one guy back to bother me.

So we enter VoD with an average 30 dp but all our npcs, they had full moral but just 2 bodyguards and 2 archers.

Gg.

I'm not saying every fast cast air spike won't send someone back, but against nubs that tactics is very very useful.

hasse · Jul 20, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Not really. I'm sure you've seen Rift run FC Airspike?

http://ladder.guildwars.com/ladder.dll?tag=Rift

Correct, uses both balanced, FoC and Fc Air spike.

They do the FC Air really good! Multiple callers splitspikes and handles teamsplit very good. Ouch! :P

samcobra · Jul 20, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Just a question? Did the recent shift of Elemental Attunement from non-attrib to Energy Storage affect FC air spike at all? Because as far as I can see, energy would be a problem otherwise, even with air attunement.

JR · Jul 20, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

Just a question? Did the recent shift of Elemental Attunement from non-attrib to Energy Storage affect FC air spike at all? Because as far as I can see, energy would be a problem otherwise, even with air attunement.

If I remember correctly, no. Elemental Attunement at 0 spec with a 20% enchantments mod now gives you a 6 second downtime, which is still manageable.