Curse

icemonkey · Apr 04, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Entirely different purpose. A wand is solely for building up adrenaline at range, so you can go in fully charged and drop someone fast with less risk. Indeed; a good hammer Warrior would have one aswell, but it isn't really an applicable comparison in this case.

entirely identical purpose. A zealous axe is soley for building up energy, so you can go in fully charged and drop someone fast with less risk

JR · Apr 04, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

entirely identical purpose. A zealous axe is soley for building up energy, so you can go in fully charged and drop someone fast with less risk

You do not use a wand because it is good at building up adrenaline, you use it because you can build up adrenaline at range.

DieInBasra · Apr 04, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

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Ummm what? The lowest cost hammer knockdown is Counter Blow and that costs 4 adrenaline. Considering that a hammer swing rate is 1.75 seconds per swing, how the hell did you come up with 4 seconds to charge up a 4 adrenaline cost skill? It's more like around 7 to 8 seconds to charge up that first knockdown without IAS.

And you came up with 2.5 seconds to make 4 swings under frenzy? Are you sure you know what you're talking about

I was compareing Axe/Sword vs Hammer, hence the "longer". More then that, I was compareing Evis(7 seconds under IAS) vs Dev (9 seconds under IAS). Those are rough numbers, I'm aware, but you get my point. Let me restate if it really bothered you -If you think that "Forever" is 4 seconds longer then a axe or sword.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 04, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

I was compareing Axe/Sword vs Hammer, hence the "longer". More then that, I was compareing Evis(7 seconds under IAS) vs Dev (9 seconds under IAS). Those are rough numbers, I'm aware, but you get my point. Let me restate if it really bothered you -If you think that "Forever" is 4 seconds longer then a axe or sword.

4 seconds by itself isnt long, you're talking about it out of context. 4 seconds more IS forever though, especially when it comes to attack skills and DPS.

Nightwish · Apr 05, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

How will Ward of Stability affects KD Hammer Wars? I know this ward is to balance the increase in knockdown skills in Factions but it kinda kills the main purpose of hammers.

Ward of Melee+Ward of Stability = Useless Hammer Warrior, slow natural attack speed, missing half the time and cannot knockdown.

I mean if Ward of Stability reduce KD length by 1sec or reduce KD success by 50%, it will be alright but negating KD completely kinda hurts the hammer..

Byron · Apr 05, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I have never had good experiences with zealous hammers. 1/1 is weaksauce.

That really depends on the build IMO. Tigers Fury = good. Hundred Blades = good.(Once gained net 5 energy by using hundred blades...) Bull's Charge = not so good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

A wand is solely for building up adrenaline at range, so you can go in fully charged and drop someone fast with less risk.

When I'm packing 9 air magic for the air focus anyway, a wand becomes good at taking down trapped spirits, as well. May I say, in that case, frenzy wand ftw?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwish

I mean if Ward of Stability reduce KD length by 1sec or reduce KD success by 50%, it will be alright but negating KD completely kinda hurts the hammer..

It also really hurts the ever-popular Eq/As warder in HA, and kinda helps against your typical IWAY meteor shower. Bull's charge has now officially become a joke in HA. And with that, HA teams are further encouraged to overload the defenses. I wince to imagine a smite team with that ward of stability.

Future Wards:

Ward against interrupts
Ward against hexes
Ward against conditions {e}
Glyph of Wards = for 15 seconds, your next ward has twice the duration.

Patrograd · Apr 05, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I wince to imagine a smite team with that ward of stability.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Freaks, Ward of Stability at 16 Earth

Spell. Create a Ward of Stability at your current location. For 10 seconds, allies in the area cannot be knocked down.

10e, 1sec cast, 30 sec recharge

Rustjive · Apr 05, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

The GWFreaks info is wrong (or arena.net recently published new changes not seen during FPE).

The recharge is 20s, and the duration at 16 EM is 26s. Tested extensively (and not really that useful) in HA during the weekend. But that has to do with the nature of HA (Altar usage only) and the lack of Hammers in HA.

Rey Lentless · Apr 05, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

The GWFreaks info is wrong (or arena.net recently published new changes not seen during FPE).

The recharge is 20s, and the duration at 16 EM is 26s. Tested extensively (and not really that useful) in HA during the weekend. But that has to do with the nature of HA (Altar usage only) and the lack of Hammers in HA.

I don't recall it being 20.. I was pretty sure it was 30. But the duration was much longer than normal wards, so the downtime was minor if it was on an earth ele. Like only a few secs.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 05, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

The duration is 22 seconds at 12 Earth and the recharge is 30. So yeah the duration is long enough that the downtime is minimal and you can basically keep it up almost all the time.

I got this info from GW Wiki.

EDIT: So yeah: Ward of Melee + Ward of Stability = Useless Hammer

JR · Apr 05, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Only if you plan on getting into a game of Ward camping. Admittedly this is a viable tactic in HA against teams with little AoE, but a good team will punish you for trying to camp Wards in GvG. Lack of mobility ftl.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Apr 05, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

You've missed the point. The point was that this handicaps Hammers more than it would for axes and swords. Also, you don't have to necessarily camp just one spot...Ward of Melee is commonly used in GvG but that doesnt mean guilds just camp one spot the whole time.

Patrograd · Apr 05, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

As a ward ele you have to make a choice, its not like you suddenly have an extra skill spot. so looking at it objectively:

would you bring this skill in place of ward vs Melee? Well, in my opinion ward melee is stronger, because it also protects me against axe and sword warriors and a hammer warrior's non-KD attacks. As long as the meta is warrior heavy then ward melee is the better skill

Would you bring it instead of ward foes? Once again, my opinion would be that ward foes is a stronger skill, a much stronger skill in fact.

So that means that if I am making a warder (which is why I was looking in freaks, sorry for that info being wrong, they arent usually) I need to drop one of my other skills in order to bring a skill that "only" prevents KDs, and I think given the tightness of the skillbar that I am only going to do that in certain specific builds. For example, an obsidian spike team could make great use of this in conjunction with mantra resolve and the other wards in order to spike with only blackout able to prevent it. Alternatively, if your build relied heavily on trappers or spirit spammers then having the ability to withstand gale interrupts is a strong card to play which is why spirit spammes typically bring dolyak.

In a more typical balanced build? I dont think the skill is strong enough to warrant inclusion unless the meta shifts heavily with the release of factions, which it probably will of course, although it is far too early to say in which direction it will shift.

In addition, as this is a ward rather than a party wide enchant it only works if you are inside the ward. Any team ward camping, as JR points out, is going to get heavily punished. Wards are basically for kiting through, and I cant see the point in kiting through a ward of stability, giving yourself 2-3 seconds (or however long it takes you to kite through it) immunity to KD unless, as already stated, the meta shifts to a KD heavy environment as it did pre-gale nerf.

tafy69 · Apr 05, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Well nearly all HA teams will have the Anti-KD ward just for the alter, doubt it will be used much in the other maps though.

If I were to make a warder I would drop Ward vs Melee for that ward and then the monk wont need SpellBreaker. Foes is the best option against warriors anyway.

Ward vs Melee is bad and it really does make people lose games, people tend to stop kiting and then you also get AoE damage etc etc.

The Real Roy Keane · Apr 05, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Well nearly all HA teams will have the Anti-KD ward just for the alter, doubt it will be used much in the other maps though.

If I were to make a warder I would drop Ward vs Melee for that ward and then the monk wont need SpellBreaker. Foes is the best option against warriors anyway.

Ward vs Melee is bad and it really does make people lose games, people tend to stop kiting and then you also get AoE damage etc etc.

IWAY suddenly becomes very scary when there's no Ward Against Melee to flee into.

SaintGreg · Apr 05, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

IWAY suddenly becomes very scary when there's no Ward Against Melee to flee into.

If you are having that much trouble beating IWAY that you need wad vs melee, the ward probably isn't going to help you that much, especially against teams that you actually would want it against.

icemonkey · Apr 05, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I can personally attest to last night being in HoH, trying to hold. Aginast ignorance embraced and some other team. Well its like 1:30 left iE has altar but my ghostly is the only one left alive, and for 1:30 yellow (who wanted iE to win) and iE ganged up on and our ghostly got chain shocked by 3 warriors and 4 mesmers for the rest of the match making us lose. After that happeneing i know I, and several other people i know, will find a way to get ward of stability in a build, just like we find ways to get a spirit spammer and a well of profane in the build. Skills that can 'gg' an altar will find a slot.

JR · Apr 05, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

If you are having that much trouble beating IWAY that you need wad vs melee, the ward probably isn't going to help you that much, especially against teams that you actually would want it against.

Yes, because needing warrior hate to counter a build entirely based upon huge amounts of buffed warrior damage is just a sign of weakness. Hell, if you can't beat IWAY naked with no skills on your bar you must be a complete nub.

Byron · Apr 05, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Any team ward camping, as JR points out, is going to get heavily punished.

Thay may be true so far as GvG is concerned, but in the tournament, ward camping is the thing to do. A holding build will typically have an oath shot spirit spammer puttting down fertile season and symbiosis every 10 seconds in a different location. With ward of stability, Eq/As is no longer a large concern, and meteor shower wont do much with the spirits up, so the only thing a holding team has to worry about is stacking aoe.
This may force the hand of an anti-warder slot in HA. Something like a resolve trapper, smiter, or fire ele who can constantly punish bunched up enemies and get through the effects of those bloody spirits. I've noticed that some teams, especially European teams, are already bringing hard-hitting aoe casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

If I were to make a warder I would drop Ward vs Melee for that ward and then the monk wont need SpellBreaker.

Spellbreaker is still very valuable IMO, especially when placed on the infuser versus a blood spike or obsidian spike.

Quote:

If I were to make a warder I would drop Ward vs Melee for that ward

You do that, and I'll keep my axe rake. Personally, Melee is the last ward I would drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

If you are having that much trouble beating IWAY that you need wad vs melee, the ward probably isn't going to help you that much

Not all IWAYs are pushovers. Teams that keep their spirits up and focus their attacks or, god forbid, adrenaline spike, are a force to be reckoned with. Aegis chains and quick healing won't keep you alive versus that kind of pressure, but Aegis chains, quick healing, and ward vs. melee just might.

Quote:

especially against teams that you actually would want it against.

Is there a build with more than 4 warriors that I haven't heard about? Ward against melee quadruples its value against IWAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

Skills that can 'gg' an altar will find a slot.

Agreed, at least for teams aiming to hold halls.

**EDIT= Sorry for veering so far off topic, haha.

Arathorn5000 · Apr 05, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Seems that every topic ends up talking about how the certain thing will affect HA in all its ridiculousness