Curse

no1 승리를 위해 · Jul 26, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

W/E

Hammer 15(major)
Strength 10 (minor)
Tatics 10 (minor)

Backbreaker [elite]
Crushing Blow
Irresistible Blow
Shock
Frenzy
Healing Signet
Rush
Ressurection Signet

W/A

Axe Mastery 15 (major)
Tatics 10(minor)
Strength 10 (minor)

Eviscerate [elite]
Executioner's Strike
Bull's Strike
Recall
Frenzy
Healing Signet
Sprint
Ressurection Signet

W/E

Swordsmanship 15 (major)
Tatics 10 (minor)
Strength 10 (minor)

Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Frenzy
Shock
Healing Signet
"Charge!" [elite]
Ressurection Signet

Rt/Me

Communing 16( Superior)
Spawning 12(Minor)
Illusion 3

Displacement
Shelter
Soothing
Union
Boon Of Creation
Ritual Lord [elite]
Distortion
Ressurection Signet

R/W

Expertise 14 (superior)
Marksmanship 10 (minor)
Rest into Wilderness Survival

Practiced Stance [elite]
Whirling Defense
Distracting Shot
Salvage Shot
Seeking Arrows
Choking Gas
Flurry
Ressurection Signet

Mo/Me

Divine Favor 15(superior)
Protection Prayers 11(minor)
Inspiration Magic 10

Divine Boon
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Prot Spirit
Draw Conditions
Mantra of Recall
Contemplation or Purity
Revealed Hex

Mo/Me

Blessed Light [elite]
Signet Of Devotion
Healing Touch
Healing Whispers
Ethereal Light
Hex Breaker
Channeling
Remove Hex

E/Mo Runner

Windborne Speed
Blinding Flash
Deep Freeze
Ice Spikes
Ether Prodigy
Blinding Flash
Heal Party
Ressurection Signet

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 26, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I don't know why you'd want to run a CG/SA ranger in GvG.
Some comments on how you intend to run the build would be nice too.

Vindexus · Jul 26, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

16 Weapon mastery always. Strength is bad.

Red Locust · Jul 26, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

16 Weapon mastery always. Strength is bad.

Negative. Koreans use minors and kick ass.

no1 승리를 위해 · Jul 26, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

16 Weapon mastery always. Strength is bad.

Are you kidding me? best to use a minor or major... and strenghth increases armor penetration..

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 26, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Only on attack skills.

Divineshadows · Jul 26, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by no1 승리를 위해

Are you kidding me? best to use a minor or major... and strenghth increases armor penetration..

What Vindexus is getting at here is that you're better off using an 11 tactics heal signet and 9 strength, because you'll notice the stronger healing signet more than a 1% armor penetration on attack skills only. The bottom line is that strength is the rush/sprint attribute and 9 strength still gives the same duration on sprint as 10 strength does. Rush already lasts 15 seconds at 9 strength which is enough.

Your charge warrior does not have a single strength skill and yet has 10 in strength. 12 tactics and 7 strength would be better for a more powerful healing signet and a longer lasting Charge! Consider even 13 tactics and 4 strength.

Vindexus · Jul 27, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

No. I'm saying that you should run a 12+4 Weapon Mastery. This has long been a standard, can someone tell me when/why this has changed?

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 27, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Apparently, the extra 40 health > more damage.

Byron · Jul 27, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Armor penetration is very bleh against anything with less than 80 armor. More weapon mastery adds to the undeniable damage of hits (eg, the +42 damage from eviscerate is armor-ignoring). It also significantly adds to the chance of criticals. Swapping out a sup against spike teams is a solid option, but otherwise, I think running less than 16 weapon mastery is handicapping your most consistent weapon.

JR · Jul 27, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

No. I'm saying that you should run a 12+4 Weapon Mastery. This has long been a standard, can someone tell me when/why this has changed?

Since [WM]Yon went on Weapon of Choice and said that all Korean Warriors use Minor runes only.

Obviously if the Koreans are doing it, it must be right.

Divineshadows · Jul 27, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Since [WM]Yon went on Weapon of Choice and said that all Korean Warriors use Minor runes only.

Obviously if the Koreans are doing it, it must be right.

Is this it must be right sarcasm? How is this better than a warrior using a superior and armor swapping to a minor rune against spike team or when some DP has been acquired?

JR · Jul 27, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Is this it must be right sarcasm? How is this better than a warrior using a superior and armor swapping to a minor rune against spike team or when some DP has been acquired?

(Just to clarify, Yon did also say that they tend to use PvP Warriors a lot, and therefore don't have the luxury of 'at will' rune changing. However I assume you are referring to just buying a minor rune to take in with you.)

I honestly don't know, and yes it was sarcasm. Not that I am saying Yon was wrong either, it is something I am undecided about.

On one side you can see that Warriors are damage dealers, and need all the help they can get. But on the other side when you are using fairly risky skills like Frenzy maybe it is better to have that extra health? Is it better to have a minor and not risk getting DP, than having a superior and switching when you do?

I am personally indecisive. The returns from running a superior really aren't that amazing, but at the same time is 'the best defense a good offense'?

kryshnysh · Jul 27, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Weapon of Choice #41 I believe? The one right after Izzy iirc.

[WM]Yon's comments brought up one of the stereotypical differences between Koreans and Americans/Europeans though. I've heard numerous times that Koreas (read: EvIL and WM) play much more of a map control battle than a straight up flag stand battle. In the case where you run around for 20 minutes and pick off stragglers, is it not better to have the straggler/lone warrior/etc. with a minor?

I'm still not sure on Yon's comments myself, but it made me think pretty heavily about builds and strategy. Superior Runes are ideal when you have monk support nearby (ideally midline so overextension is quite hard), in a straight up battle at the flagstand (7v7 ideally). The more you stray from this, having your warrior extend farther from your monks, whether overextending, or separating off from the "main body" or otherwise tactically maneuvering for position throughout the guild hall, killing NPCs, and so on, the more a minor rune starts to appeal for its lesser loss of health.

Obviously this isn't the only reason to consider a minor rune, facing spikes would be another case where a minor rune might be quite nice just as an example, but it brought me to thinking something I hadn't really considered.

JR · Jul 27, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

[WM]Yon's comments brought up one of the stereotypical differences between Koreans and Americans/Europeans though. I've heard numerous times that Koreas (read: EvIL and WM) play much more of a map control battle than a straight up flag stand battle. In the case where you run around for 20 minutes and pick off stragglers, is it not better to have the straggler/lone warrior/etc. with a minor?

Indeed, which reminds me of another significant example.

Look back maybe five or six months, and Healing Signet was very much 'a Korean thing'. No American or European guilds seemed to use it on Warriors, not seeing the point. The Koreans saw the tactical advantages in having flexible warriors with the ability to split off to an extent.

Maybe this is another example of that, whereby we all laugh about it and doubt it now, but in two months it may well be the norm?

nebuchanezzar · Jul 27, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

If its a PvE warrior I would see no reason to start off without a Superior. I can swap a minor bucket hat in about a second. One of the reasons pve chars are a huge advantage. When with monk support go all out 16 Weapon and hope for more crits and harder hits. If you need to run flag, gank npc's, etc. then swap your helmet(or whatever its on).
If you are making a pvp character then I think its a no brainer to take only minor runes unless you want to spend gold to have a few sups and minors to "add" during battles. Doesn't really seem worth it to make a pvp char, then get gold from storage to stock up on oh perhaps 2-3 of each rune before a halls run to counter DP or Spike groups.

Vindexus · Jul 28, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

We need Ensign to crunch the numbers on how much more damage you do with 16 compare to 14 weapon mastery.

kryshnysh · Jul 28, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

The difference is about 10 percent, varying of course with which side you consider the base, and a bit due to the ambiguity in critical hit percentages. Adding a superior rune is a loss of 75 health which is generally 12-15% or so.

Not sure how much those numbers really mean, as to me it seems with more health you should be able to overextend a bit more and you're also compared how "independent" a build is which is really hard to measure, but those are the numbers I come up with.

Lady Callingwell · Jul 30, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Just make yourself a decent excell sheet once instead of asking ensign

, below are comparisons including crits etc averaged out.

Axe: 92.6 % @ 14, 96.2 % @ 15
Sword:93.9 % @ 14, 96.9 % @ 15
Hammer: 93.6 % @ 14, 96.7 % @ 15

Thom Bangalter · Jul 30, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

since I don't really know the math off the top of my head, if you're using a pve warrior, couldn't you use a req 8 sword and put 15 in weapon mastery with a major, keeping the same amount of critical hits?