Curse

neoflame · Jun 28, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

v4: http://gwshack.us/f898d
v3: http://gwshack.us/46af5
v2: http://gwshack.us/84b9d
v1: http://gwshack.us/d45f8

The melee pressure has been returned to a pair of warriors, though one is now a BiP/sword, which may help the mesmers if necessary (though the BiP is not absolutely necessary, it helps with constant Diversion upkeep). Warriors are better pressure, and the build has pressure with the Diversion spam already. Also because Final Thrust owns.

The water ele has been changed to a FC Curses/Weaken Knees character; with Diversion spam being the primary concern of enemy hex removal, WK should help cause more pressure, and dual failures/Faint should help defensively. In compensation, one of the mesmers now carries Draw Conditions, and the cripshot (not many conditions in the build, and cripshot is expensive anyway

) has been replaced by... the water flagger from v1. PB should also help against Hex Breakers.

Speaking of which, both monks now carry Hex Breaker, and one of the BLight monks has been changed to a WoH/infuser.

Byron · Jun 29, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Its a shame that 2 copies of convert hexes seems like a good idea...

The warriors seem solid, nuff said.

The mesmer armed with diversion and high interrupt potential seems like an effective countermeasure to smiters, and also pretty effective against all types of monks; I like it.

Psychic distraction seems weak, since it disables all other spells for 8 seconds, which is a pretty long time. If used against a spamming caster with relatively long cast times (eg, blessed light monk), it may be an effective shutdown. I'm skeptical as to its reliability, though.

One thing that I wasn't sure about was its splitting capability. How would you go about splitting such a build? 1 warrior, 1 monk?

SaintGreg · Jun 30, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Can you actually get use out of draw conditions on a ritualist? Seems like a behind the backline character won't be able to use draw conditions the one time its important - pulling blind off your warriors.

What does power return on #3 get you?

Also interesting to note, that even though this build would destroy SB/RI, building for that does indeed weaken you a fair bit against any other build (in this case weaker offensively).

Mr Fizzle · Jun 30, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I think the I-Hex on #4 should be changed to a Fast Cast Remove Hex,I think Spirit of Failure would be enough E-Mangement.And carrying the Rt does weaken you.Maybe im just dumb cuz Rts seem to much like monks to me

.

Maybe change #7 to a full heal monk with HP and the flag runner to a Rt(Hmm :S)and then you have a another offensive position.Rather than something completly monk support.

I dunno I GvG more casually :X so . . just my 50 cents

fatboyslimerr · Jun 30, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

I'm pretty sure people just observe top ranked GvGs then just copy their builds almost exactly and post on the forums. I saw someone using almost the same build except without the PD mesmer.

If you did see that you'd notice that the MoR mesmer didn't have shatter enchant as well as convert hexes. Its tricky enough to be pumping out diversion or whatever, using MoR. I realise he's got P-Drain and Drain Enchant but if you miss with P-Drain you are utterly screwed. Even if you do hit and you get a nice energy boost, you'll struggle to use convert hexes more than twice a minute or so if your using shatter enchant too.

I quite like plain older remove hex with MoR. Casts in under a second and recharges in 3.5 seconds, which isn't half bad if your paying attention, allowing you to be able to shatter more enchantments in a minute, which is useful against smiters, making for easier spikin'

Nice build apart from that, I agree that draw condition on a ritualist probably isn't a good idea. If he can afford it, extinguish would be a better option since he only needs to replace spirits when they die and can just stay in the back spamming spirits and removing conditions.

Love your Bs monk

romO · Jun 30, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I'm pretty sure people just observe top ranked GvGs then just copy their builds almost exactly and post on the forums. I saw someone using almost the same build except without the PD mesmer.

There's duality to that statement. Perhaps this is the case, or perhaps certain skills are inherently better and both the high and low ranked guilds and players have the ability to recognize this. Both are true. If this is his original build, then there's simply a lot of insight that is shared with some of the top guilds due to the skills themselves and not because of any kind of plagiarism.

Aiiane · Jun 30, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I quite like plain older remove hex with MoR. Casts in under a second and recharges in 3.5 seconds, which isn't half bad if your paying attention, allowing you to be able to shatter more enchantments in a minute, which is useful against smiters, making for easier spikin'

Remove Hex, no matter how quickly it recharges, does nothing against SB/RI, which was one of the intents the OP had when making the build.

neoflame · Jul 01, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I replaced the Rt/Mo with a water ele, because I forgot that the reason I originally had a rit in that slot was for "Retreat!", which he no longer had. :/ This way the build gets a better Draw Conditions host and more reliable hex spam to bury thumpers in. The flagrunner has been changed to a cripshotter to compensate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Psychic distraction seems weak, since it disables all other spells for 8 seconds, which is a pretty long time. If used against a spamming caster with relatively long cast times (eg, blessed light monk), it may be an effective shutdown. I'm skeptical as to its reliability, though.

It's the only reliable way I can think of for stopping a Mantra'd SB. Maybe with the dual FC Converts it's unnecessary (I haven't tested this build), but according to some reports even dual Converts isn't enough against a well-done spike.

Quote:

One thing that I wasn't sure about was its splitting capability. How would you go about splitting such a build? 1 warrior, 1 monk?

Probably 1/3/6/8 offensive and 2/4/5/7 defensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

What does power return on #3 get you?

A cheap, fast-recharging interrupt for when the Mantra-stopping power of PD is not needed. Maybe another energy skill in its place? :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

I'm pretty sure people just observe top ranked GvGs then just copy their builds almost exactly and post on the forums. I saw someone using almost the same build except without the PD mesmer.

I haven't even looked at observer mode in about a month.

Quote:

If you did see that you'd notice that the MoR mesmer didn't have shatter enchant as well as convert hexes. Its tricky enough to be pumping out diversion or whatever, using MoR. I realise he's got P-Drain and Drain Enchant but if you miss with P-Drain you are utterly screwed. Even if you do hit and you get a nice energy boost, you'll struggle to use convert hexes more than twice a minute or so if your using shatter enchant too.

I quite like plain older remove hex with MoR. Casts in under a second and recharges in 3.5 seconds, which isn't half bad if your paying attention, allowing you to be able to shatter more enchantments in a minute, which is useful against smiters, making for easier spikin'

Shatter is really nice for spiking though, and Convert Hexes is instrumental SB/RI ganking action. If that character had energy problems though I'd probably drop either PR or Shatter in favor of Inspired Hex or Enchantment, or even another copy of SoF to rage thumpers.

SaintGreg · Jul 01, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

If you did see that you'd notice that the MoR mesmer didn't have shatter enchant as well as convert hexes. Its tricky enough to be pumping out diversion or whatever, using MoR. I realise he's got P-Drain and Drain Enchant but if you miss with P-Drain you are utterly screwed. Even if you do hit and you get a nice energy boost, you'll struggle to use convert hexes more than twice a minute or so if your using shatter enchant too.

Both Shatter Enchantment and especially Convert Hexes are conditional skills, you don't just go around spamming them. Its highly unlikely that you'll need to use convert hexes more than a couple times a minute, but the option is of course there if you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

[Power Return - ] A cheap, fast-recharging interrupt for when the Mantra-stopping power of PD is not needed. Maybe another energy skill in its place? :/

I can think of only two times that you'd ever power return in an average gvg, and that'd be interrupting Balthazar's Aura, and chain interrupting hard res through distortion. That alone may be enough to want to basically waste the skill slot, considering. On everything else, a power return does very little, unless the spell had a long recharge, high energy cost, or long casting time. Since those spells typically aren't attractive for practical use because of their inherent disadvantages, the practical use of power return is very low, except in limited situations.

Red Locust · Jul 01, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Power return can be used to deny spells on a regular basis. In general, you can interrupt key spells in the enemy team's build (heal parties, lightning orbs, water snares, hex removal, hard rez, whatever) depending on what you need to disable. True, the enemy gains 5 energy, but he loses, say, 15 energy casting his heal party. If you're running mantra of recovery, power return is a beast provided you can keep it up.

Dragannia · Jul 01, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Problem with Diversion against AoE smiters is that they now use Hex Breaker.

fatboyslimerr · Jul 02, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

If you designed a mesmer just to deal with those hex breaker smiters, it would have to have wastrel's worry which is the sure counter to hex breaker due to its low cost and fast recharge. Notice your target uses hex breaker, use wastrel's, you take a bit of damage, then diversionise them to your hearts content

Although I'm not really sure its worth it just to deal with smiters, because I know they are popular but not worth taking a skill specific to them.

Personally, if your seriously worried about hexes you take an expeller, which my guild does just because they are so good, and can still fully function as a shutdown mesmer.

I'm seriously not sure its wise to only have 4 people on your team with res. I know you have a hard resser but what if he gets wacked ? Its just too risky. At most I would let 1 or pushing it, 2 people not take res but it would have to be for a very good reason.

Other than that, probably a good switch to the water ele. Looking good

Almighty Zi · Jul 02, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

4 res signets are ample. You can hard res everyone and save the signets just for monks and the hard resser. If you are having to use more than 4 res signets and cannot gain a moral boost then you are probably losing the match anyway and no number of signets will change that.

minor · Jul 02, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I think we all believe that SB/RI is getting nerfed; making a counter will probably turn out to be a waste of time. As far as an expel mesmer some Sb teams bring 2 sig of humility to take care of him.

Dragannia · Jul 04, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Hmm, Order of Apostasy would probably be effective against tripple smite. Just cast it once and wand the Monks so they lose Zealot's.

neoflame · Jul 15, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

v3 is up, see original post for comments.

Dragannia · Jul 16, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Aren't you going a bit overboard with the hex removal? I'd say, get rid of one BL Monk in favour of a boon prot, for the extra healing power, and a Mend Condition. One Draw, on the RUNNER, is hardly going to cut it.

neoflame · Aug 02, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

The mesmers aren't going to be spamming Convert Hexes, and DC wasn't on the runner. v4 (now up) puts in more removal of everything anyway.