Curse

JoDiamonds · Jul 12, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Grentz clearly favors Kurzick, as designed. It is essentially a mirror map to Etnaran, which clearly favors Luxons.

Minus Sign: I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, regarding roost vs. rez.

For what it's worth, it seems implied that people who argue that the rez shrines are more important than the roost are also arguing in favor of ignoring the roost. That's putting words in other people's mouths; that would be like me saying that taking the roost is pointless if you ignore the rez shrines afterwards.

For instance, "Holding one rez or another while ignoring the dragon roost...". Why even talk about that? Anyone ignoring any capture point is being silly.

Almost everyone has agreed that the three most important capture points on Saltspray are the rez shrines and the Roost. It's kind of a pointless to assume that people are avoiding the roost, because no one has said they are doing that (especially for the entire battle, just because it's Kurzick-held). You don't avoid things held by the enemy, or you'd never get anything after the first rush!

My primary argument for saying the rez shrines are more valuable is because having them makes it easier to get all other shrines (including the roost). In particular, I advocate taking the rez shrines first with force, and then taking the roost from both sides. This provides overwhelming force first at the rez shrine battles, and then at the roost.

Strategically speaking, I think you are screwed if you instead send overwhelming force to the roost and then try to get the rez shrines. You can't reasonably send 12-men to the roost (or you will end up way behind early on and probably never recover, especially with the combat bonuses the other team will get). If you instead do something like 3-6-3, both of your 3's are likely to get killed without inflicting serious damage. That doesn't leave a good setup for moving onwards, even if you beat a group of 4 in the center relatively easily.

If the intent is instead, "The people who win at the roost are more likely to win the game", well, that is sort of true, but only because the winner there was obviously better (if only in a metagame sense) than the people they beat, so it shows that one side is slightly favored. But the same is true at the rez shrines as well.

As people have noted, Luxons have been winning more recently and spending more time at Grentz (though hardly a reversal of all the time spent at Etnaran). Perhaps some Luxons have figured out that holding the three important locations at Saltspray is the key. ;-)

Voltar · Jul 16, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

entaran keys means kurzick have control of the harvest temple, saltspray beach means the luxons have control of the harvest temple. that's the first town to go depending on who's winning. it's pretty much been going back and forth because nobody's bee winning more than the other. saltspray has a kurzick bias and etnaran has a luxon bias.

they recently added a "momentum" mod or script or whatever with the patch on the 13th that makes the winning side's ... um ... winning count for more in pushing the border. each map you get to as you go deeper into enemy territory is supposed to be more biased against you (defenders have an easier time) which makes sense.

i guess you can take over anything that isn't a mission town or a capital (i'd expect the 15k armor towns as well). count what's leftover i guess and that's probably how many maps there are...i can think of 3 luxon ones at the moment (i'm at work)...seafarer's, breaker and that one up in the hills that nobody goes to.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jul 16, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltar

i guess you can take over anything that isn't a mission town or a capital (i'd expect the 15k armor towns as well). count what's leftover i guess and that's probably how many maps there are...i can think of 3 luxon ones at the moment (i'm at work)...seafarer's, breaker and that one up in the hills that nobody goes to.

You mean Bai Paasu Reach. BTW in that OP, It looks like dawn when the Echovald forest is all dark and scary.

The O Rly Factor · Jul 16, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

saltspray beach means the luxons have control of the harvest temple

Saltspray Beach is the neutral map, where nobody controls any over the other sides outposts. The Harvest Temple is at the start of the Jade Sea, making it a Luxon Controlled Territory. When the map is at Etnaran Keys, it means Kurzick has taken the first Luxon town(maybe more) which is Harvest Temple.

Grenz gives control of Durheim Archives.

Dark Luke · Jul 16, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

This page on guildwiki lists the order of towns captured.

After Eterean keys, the map even deeper is the north-south Kanaaki Cliffs where the Luxons starts in the center of the map and Kurzicks at the south. Nobody knows how many Jade seas towns are needed to be captured in order to actually move the alliance battle lines to here... But I have the following guesses:
-Bai Paasu Beach (5 towns) if Cavalon and challenge missions are capturable
-Eredon terrace (4 towns) if challenge missions are not capturable

The Kurzick counterpart to Kanaaki Cliffs is the east-west Ancestal Lands, with a similiar layout.

And nice avatar Voltar.

Rofl_Pwnt · Jul 26, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyan The Archer

Us Kurzicks are always winning, we just thought it would be fun to let you Luxons have a win for once in a while, we were getting kind of bored at the stupid jade.

Wow..i can see there are some jack@$$es in this forum. I dont understand why we cant be friends. But if you wanna play that way. Shut up you Kurd!ck. Go hug a tree.

Shuuda · Aug 06, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I like Grenz Frontier, Ive won matches on it (Im luxon) the layout is pretty much the same as Eternan, but it has a stone forest theme, made to give kurzicks an advantage, and the necro and mes shrine were swaped around, thats all. U even notice that there is a bridge in between the monk shrines.

Saborath Gilgalad · Aug 10, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Luxons usally push to grenz about 3 times a week. And yes the luxons do win there. Couple days ago when we push to grenz, my team completely rolled the kurzicks, and went 6 wins straight against the kurzicks until I left. Examples of matches 501(L)-124(K), 507(L)-201(K), 510(L)-311(K)etc. But with grenz I believe the kurizicks have a bigger advantage on that map, then the luxons have with keys.