Curse

Wilhelm · Aug 22, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

any RC prot that isn't a complete scrub will neutralize your only source of offense and healing. Also, VIM is considered a noob build because it's only capable of beating horrible players.

I've run vimway consistantly over the last 4 days....and if your saying that an rc prot is a "scrub" if he can't handle it...well your ripping up quite a few good monks.

and for only being able to beat horrible players? We had a hellish stretch of back to back top 100 guilds on scarred earth, on our trip to a halls win and hold during 'prime time' over the weekend...both teams were of course running the only 'NON noob' build apparently (balanced)

I vote a big fat yes for vimway, cause I like seeing empty ele wards

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Aug 22, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Lol relying on the ghost to interupt one of the many spells being cast is absolutely retarded. And still even then a good balanced team will shutdown the trappers making it hard 2 lay traps and harder 2 heal.
Saying that vim can beat a very good balanced team is absolute crap.
I vote no for ViM because ive never lost 2 it and i dont c how any1 can.

You seem to be under the impression that I was being serious and saying vim was a good build. I meant that vim has a ridiculously slim chance of winning in the event that RC gets distracting shotted by some odd occurence, and was kinda being sarcastic. I too vote no on vim.

Timmy Shinobi · Aug 22, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Wow thanks for the feedback guys

So far the poll goes.
Yes No
6 6

Keep them coming.

Stupid Shizno · Aug 22, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

i say yes to any build that breaks the status qoe.

S!carius · Aug 22, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I would play VIM if I decide that I feel playing playing some HA and I was short on time. I don't like VIMWAY though, I think that the 2 blackout warriors from along with 2 more trappers is more effective than 4 iway warrriors.

If you are looking to get better at PvP, I would suggust that you lead a balanced group. If you are looking for some fast action, I would definately go with VIM.

Dinkytowner · Aug 22, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

No. Just, no.

Yunas Ele · Aug 22, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

It depends what you're looking for. If you want to be cool and respected on the internet, don't touch ViM (or any other "lame" build such as IWAY) with a 30 ft pole. If you enjoy playing ViM and just want to play to have a good time and maybe make a bit of fame on the side, go for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I have never seen vim win. I am not exaggerating. I have never seen it win. On tv, in scarred earth, against me, or even heard of it winning otherwise. Why is it popular?

It's the new pre-ooa iway...you know, the one that let me pwn them for my rank 9.

Beating ViMway with spike isn't much of an accomplishment. When I played in Dryder's blood spike we rolled every Vimway we faught in less than a minute 30 seconds every time, and I think we can all agree that dryder runs one of the worst (if not THE worst) b-spikes in the game. In fact, beating ViMway at all, with any build is not much of an accomplishment. Great work beating ViMway shard, just shows how 1337 are you.

Anyways I'd also recommend running modded Vimway. I've seen the Vimway with 5 r/w, 1 mo/w, 1 e/w and 1 me/w do quite well as well as vim with 6 r/w that are hybrid vim trappers and r-spikers and then 2 n/mo (1 oov, 1 oop/matyr, this was back when they stacked, maybe mod it a bit now). I think both these mods were made by a player name "Playboy Light", the only person I have ever seen win with ViM and he comes up with all kind of crazy ViM mods and got himself r10 with it.

luilui · Aug 23, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Lol relying on the ghost to interupt one of the many spells being cast is absolutely retarded. And still even then a good balanced team will shutdown the trappers making it hard 2 lay traps and harder 2 heal.
Saying that vim can beat a very good balanced team is absolute crap.
I vote no for ViM because ive never lost 2 it and i dont c how any1 can.

i think that was a joke.

to the topic, i dont think there's any problem for a unrank player to vim. getting some fames, learning the maps, seeing what other people run, and most of all much easier to get a team. starting unranked balance needs at least 10 times more patient, uncertain build, unreliable monks, and ppl rage quit after 1 UW lose. u guys all talk about how inefficient vimway is, but i dont think an unranked team has any realistic chance of winning hall anyway. and tbh when i was unranked i would be quite happy to get 15 fames in 1 day ......

imo iway > vimway, it's much more versatile, has infuse, has spirits, has hard ress, has interrupts. dont understand why ppl think vimway is better than iway. maybe true for bad players, but if u can use the build well iway is much more powerful. that's why iway can win halls but vimway cant.

Mo Joe Joe Joe · Aug 23, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I vote yes for any build people want to run. For the people that flame you for tryin to join a VIMway, forget those jerks. Who appointed these "build-nazis." I realize they may have great credentials and be fabulous PVPers, but it is a game, let people play what they enjoy. IMO, There are 2 build flavors out there; fame farmer or HoH holder. Play whichever you enjoy. If you want to bring free fame my way by picking a really bad build, I will gladly accept your charity and never grief you. I have handed out plenty of free fame to others and expect to receive some in return...

Ventius Hozza · Aug 23, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

A resounding yes.

Please, more people play ViM. My groups laugh when we see ViM on the other team, it's just free fame all round.

It doesn't win, it doesn't hold, it doesn't even pose a threat. More fame for me, gogogo play ViM.

Wilhelm · Aug 23, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ventius Hozza

A resounding yes.
It doesn't win, it doesn't hold, it doesn't even pose a threat. More fame for me, gogogo play ViM.

Ask Consume Chicken, and Euro Frat.......it wins...holds....but only if its well organized.

165 fame in 4 days (4ish hours a day) ....4 hoh wins...those 2 guilds beaten...among other high ranks..........doesn't win

Jade Zephyr · Aug 23, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Geez... I thought this was a thread about about VIM being good or bad and why, but most of you guys are just bragging and not too any help at all.
So what if u can beat VIMway, it was not the question. I say yes to VIMway because its an easy build, u get some kind of experience and its easy to get a group. /Jade Zephyr

Wilhelm · Aug 23, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

apologize if you took that as bragging...but I'm just a strong support of Vimway, and I do beleive, a well organized, Vimway team can compete with some of the best, as I just noted.

Unfortunatly like its twin brother Iway, 90% of the teams that try to run it, have no real strategy. (ex. ball on a spike team), so many ppl just steam roll them.

in the end...vimway is fun...

Divineshadows · Aug 23, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Unfortunatly like its twin brother Iway, 90% of the teams that try to run it, have no real strategy. (ex. ball on a spike team), so many ppl just steam roll them.

QFT. However, even the VIMway teams that trap aggressively are not that scary to good balanced teams. Each player on the balanced team simply wands a different trapper (including the warriors which should have a wand anyway for adrenaline building purposes) and pre-kites any trappers who attempt to feet trap them. Wanding your own corresponding number is the simplest strategy, because it requires less communication over vent and this type of plan can be quickly discussed before the trappers even get near you. When some traps actually do go off (cause you're not going to be able to interrupt them all with wands), proper team spacing ensures only one or two people at most get hit by a trap.

Without the oath/whirling combination and without distortion, there is little that the trappers can do to prevent interruption of their traps. Without many traps, the opposition has few conditions. Without many conditions, they can be quickly cleaned up by extinguish and restore condition. With conditions be agressively cleaned up, the VIMway team loses any pressure it hoped for and any ability it had to heal.

Many VIMway teams "try" to counter restore condition with signet of humility or blackout, but both of these counters are also easy for the balanced team to counter with distracting shot or cry of frustratation. Even if the VIMway team does manage to get you without restore condition for 6 to 12 seconds, only the bad balanced teams have all their condition removal loaded onto a single player on their team.

Lastly, a common HA skill due to its usefulness against smite teams and IWAY -- ward against foes -- when placed between the opposition and your team is useful for keeping the trappers at a safe distance and from pressing aggressively on your team.

This pretty much summarizes why I would never play VIMway and why I would never recommend the build to any friends.

ZenRgy · Aug 23, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

ViM is pretty horrible verses a spike, unless the team works fast. ViMway has no healing before the battle meaning even if our spike doesn't kill someone, you just keep firing until they die.

Guitary Boy · Aug 23, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

There has been a huge vimway increase in the past few days, honestly every single iwayer spamming the hell out of int districts has vim somewhere in his message. Same with vim trappers.
I think it has seen a huge increase because people have realized its the easiest team to set up, with iway you need the 4 iwayer, depending on what type ooa/oop , rit lord, trappers ect. Vimway you need 4 trappers 4 iwayers, and these are the two most common types of builds you will find in Heroes Asent. Also it has relative effectiveness against other iway teams, if you have a vimway on vent and you are an opposing vimway pug, ranked or not, the match should be somthing like this :

Opposing Iway Warriors : Ohhh look over there, 4 rangers to brainlessly hack away at, mind we best send i pets in first; pets go in traps go off.
Vimway team: Reset traps and awaits iway.
Opposing Iway Warriors: ZOMG COME OUT OF YOUR NEWB TRAPS STUPID NOOBS.
Vimway team: /laugh, few more traps.
Opposing Iway Warriors: Charge in hacking anything that breathes. Get crippled, and out go the opposing iway warriors to make short work of enemy iways necro's/ritualists.
Vimway team: Iway warriors withdraw back into ball whilst frozen soil has been laid and maintained, opposing iway warriors get frustrated then hack away at vim ball and die very quickly. If its a priest match there will mostlikely be a repeat of this situation until the enemy preist is dead.
A iway team on vent with some co-ordination would send pets in and wait for vim to get annoyed, if not it will be a very long match.
Even a pug vimway will do better than your standard pug iway, because the vimway warriors should have the common sence to notice there is a ball and thus wont charge out, but against a half decent balanced team all you need to do is aoe the ball causing the team to break up.
Vimway is a win or lose build based on opposing teams common sence. It takes about 5 minutes to set up and is is even more basic than iway, but it relys on the opposing team being idiots.
I think vimway over iway

The Real Roy Keane · Aug 23, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitary Boy

There has been a huge vimway increase in the past few days, honestly every single iwayer spamming the hell out of int districts has vim somewhere in his message. Same with vim trappers.
I think it has seen a huge increase because people have realized its the easiest team to set up, with iway you need the 4 iwayer, depending on what type ooa/oop , rit lord, trappers ect. Vimway you need 4 trappers 4 iwayers, and these are the two most common types of builds you will find in Heroes Asent. Also it has relative effectiveness against other iway teams, if you have a vimway on vent and you are an opposing vimway pug, ranked or not, the match should be somthing like this :

Opposing Iway Warriors : Ohhh look over there, 4 rangers to brainlessly hack away at, mind we best send i pets in first; pets go in traps go off.
Vimway team: Reset traps and awaits iway.
Opposing Iway Warriors: ZOMG COME OUT OF YOUR NEWB TRAPS STUPID NOOBS.
Vimway team: /laugh, few more traps.
Opposing Iway Warriors: Charge in hacking anything that breathes. Get crippled, and out go the opposing iway warriors to make short work of enemy iways necro's/ritualists.
Vimway team: Iway warriors withdraw back into ball whilst frozen soil has been laid and maintained, opposing iway warriors get frustrated then hack away at vim ball and die very quickly. If its a priest match there will mostlikely be a repeat of this situation until the enemy preist is dead.
A iway team on vent with some co-ordination would send pets in and wait for vim to get annoyed, if not it will be a very long match.
Even a pug vimway will do better than your standard pug iway, because the vimway warriors should have the common sence to notice there is a ball and thus wont charge out, but against a half decent balanced team all you need to do is aoe the ball causing the team to break up.
Vimway is a win or lose build based on opposing teams common sence. It takes about 5 minutes to set up and is is even more basic than iway, but it relys on the opposing team being idiots.
I think vimway over iway

As well as being better at beating balanced teams and holding halls than vimway, IWAY usually beats ViM in head to head situation, thanks to Mark of Pain, Edge of Extinction, and the fact that it's a more coherent build in general. In fact, balling up as you desribed is the worst possible mistake a Vimway could make against an IWAY team.
I'd still take spike or balanced over either though.

B Ephekt · Aug 24, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

apologize if you took that as bragging...but I'm just a strong support of Vimway, and I do beleive, a well organized, Vimway team can compete with some of the best, as I just noted.

If CC was running their NR/Tranq build you beat them because they only really have Martyr for condition removal. Congratulations, you beat a team with no real counter to your build. That's leet.

Anyway, the reason VIM is considered a crappy build is because it's so easily countered, and most builds bring hard counters without specifically being anti-VIM.

Balanced - RC and Extinguish will releave most of the pressure allowing the team to pick apart the trappers. Casters can stay in wards for the most part as long as the RC is doing his job - they only really need to move out of 'super traps'. Any ranger or mesmers can easily interrupt the trappers to further lessen the pressure.

IWAY - I've noticed a lot of IWAYs have been brining Mark of Pain on the OoA lately. MoP on a trapper will cause them to spread out and reduce their healing, then the IWAY warriors can just hack them up easily. I believe IWAY brings extinguish and Healing Hands/Healing Seed as well.

Spikes - VIM has no real healing, so unless you're facing complete noobs you have no defense against spike teams. Most spikes usually have RC and Extinguish as well.

Hex Heavy - Usually have just as much, if not more, degen than VIM, but also have real monks. Again, VIM is at a disadvantage.

VIM might be fun and might get you some fame, but it's still not a good build. It's a really crappy gimmick that will usually only beat bad teams, or teams lacking in condition removal.

As for the "experience" you gain from doing VIM, stop fooling yourself. You might be learning tactics for the first 3 maps, but you're not learning anything about pvp. If all you've done for your rank is shit traps or c-spacebar with an IWAY warrior, I certainly don't want you in my balanced group.

Guitary Boy · Aug 24, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

As well as being better at beating balanced teams and holding halls than vimway, IWAY usually beats ViM in head to head situation, thanks to Mark of Pain, Edge of Extinction, and the fact that it's a more coherent build in general. In fact, balling up as you desribed is the worst possible mistake a Vimway could make against an IWAY team.
I'd still take spike or balanced over either though.

Your average rank 3 iway, or unranked iway without voice coms doesnt have the common sence to cast mark of pain on a target, then call it. Let alone have the warriors attack the same target for mark of pain to outdamage healing springs/iway. Edge of extinction has had a nerf, iway cant keep a balled up group with healing springs below 90% health for eoe to work efficiently. Sure iway can beat vimway, a ranked vimway vs a ranked iway with voice coms i would even to for the iway to win. But how many teams vim/vimway/iway teams are there out there that are on voice coms and ranked compared to the unranked teams floating around.
Like i said, vim and vimway relys on the opponents stupidness, most unranked pugs that arent friends/fairly organized ect which there are alot of, are fairly stupid . I say vimway over iway because of how quick vimway is to set up at the moment and actually win a couple of matches, its just a good way to make a bit of fame, and faster as it only requires 2 types of builds that happen to be the most common ones floating around at the moument.
Though i would with you on taking a balanced/spike over either.

timmyw29 · Aug 24, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Any reasonable group can beat Vimway into the ground without even coming close to breaking a sweat. I don't mind if people want to play it, I might even try it some time just for fun.

There's no need to scream "zomg n00b j00 suk lolololol" at people who want to play it, nor whisper them with anything along those lines, really. I don't scream at IWAY, heck I don't even scream that at smiteball. I just take my fame and say "GG." Trash talk just because someone runs build x is useless.

Besides, there's always something worse. *looks at g8ag*