Curse

Tainek · Oct 28, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xasew

Revitalize makes even Orison look hot.

i Ran it today in GvG , i Ran:

13 Divine
14 Healing

(650 Hp)

Healers Boon (new name for revitalise)
Orison (150 Point heal) - Self heal
Words of comfort (130ish If not condition, 200 with one Condition) - Self heal
Dwaynas Kiss (See above)
Infuse (note, this is over 700 points, overheal spike ftw)
Sig of Devotion - Energy Management, top up
Sig of Rejuvination - Energy Management, Top up
Purge Signet - Only Used when Splitting

All healing spells are 1/2 cast time, pretty damn fast (IMO, this is reason alone to run it over glimmer, Orison+Kiss out Heal per second it, and arnt as diversion freindly)

My biggest problem with this build was over healing, we faced several Teams

Team 1 - Hex Pressure

This was a joke, Sig of devotion and rejuvination took care of top ups on several team mates, and Kiss was obscene, i had a 600 point kiss on a warrior, and was consistantly healing for 300-400, seriously overhealing, but for 5 energy it wasnt a problem

Team 2 - Conditions Pressure

a Condition Paragon+ Dervish and the rest of the team Spreading Diesese , Bleed, Deep wound and Poison , Was identical to above, but sub in words of comfort, was a joke once again

Team 3 - Pure Spike

A Rainbow spike with 2 necro, 1 mes, 2 ele and a rit, i estimate the damage of the spike was aproximatly 800+500 afterspike , a well timed infuse obliterated the first spike, and the second one was made null with words of comfort (deep wound via PP) , they tried to spike me on several occasions, but with 650 Health, i was almost impossible to kill

Team 4 - Balanced

Standard balanced team, had very little problems catching adrenal Spikes, was relativly unhindered by e-denial, enchant removal, or intturupts

Managed a flawless on all four teams, note i was in tamdem with a Blight Mo/A and an ele Drawbot with Convert Hex's

To summarise the build, its got awesome Healing, its tricky to shutdown (even migraine + enchant removal didnt hinder me much)

it does however lack utility, only one non spammable hex+ Condition removal, and no prot

However paired with either a Blight monk, or what may be seen, a pure prot monk with expel Hex's +GoH , it is a real PITA to defeat

might make a thread with this build in the monk forum at some point

I Brother Bloood I · Oct 29, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

healers boon + prot monk (rc or blight?) + Some kind hex removal = perfect healing. get down to what anet wants us to do run 1 healer and 1 prot.

Patrograd · Oct 30, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Why would you bring mend ailment over dismiss condition?

around · Oct 30, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

In a condition heavy meta Mend Ailment can give you big heals.

Xero Silvam · Oct 31, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

In a condition heavy meta Mend Ailment can give you big heals.

I bolded the keywords in this sentence why you shouldn't run Ailment.

Drewfense · Oct 31, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

I am not really following this arguement....why is mend ailment now being regarded as garbage?...

moriz · Oct 31, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

it is nice in that it heals when you are overloaded with conditions. the extra 2 seconds of recharge won't make much difference, as each character's probably stacked with 2 or 3 conditions. there, its conditional healing will heal for significant amounts of health.

Jezza · Nov 09, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Dismiss is the new mend ailment. Mend ailment was only used because of the ability to target self. Now dismiss does it only it recharges faster. The heals were very secondary, so faster recharge wins out.

Neo-LD · Nov 09, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jezza

The heals were very secondary, so faster recharge wins out.

Dead wrong. There is almost no reason to ever waste 5 points of monk energy for no heal save for the divine favor bonus. Its the same reason why people take draw conditions to remove blinds and other non-damaging conditions - so the monks dont have to. Your job as monk is to make hp bars go up (and make them go down slower... but I digress) Anyways, as monk you must use your energy with extreme prejudice; especially with energy management at its most precarious state, ever, and the abundence of beatdown teams... 5e for almost no return is a waste.

You are 1000 times better off using 5e for a Gift of Health on a conditioned, moderately damaged, non-enchanted target, than Dismiss. The only time anyone should even consider taking Dismiss for one instant is if they have taints, or aegis chains, or otherwise can guarentee near party-wide enchantments. If you can guarentee you will get the heal from Dismiss, it is a very good skill.

Drewfense · Nov 09, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Agree with Neo...not even really sure how to argue it. Losing a 50-60 point heal is a lot for 2 seconds. I guess dismiss would be better for removing blinds...but thats about it. Versus a taint or something the dismiss becomes pointless, mend still heals. Versus deep wound, I want a heal. Period. Even in a build that is enchant heavy, I would be weary to take it since you are weakened on the split.

moriz · Nov 09, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

dismiss is also nice if you're running a boon prot bar, but those are pretty rare these days.

also, with party-wide enchants, it might be an option to use signet of removal. like dismiss, it's pretty conditional, but nice if your build is made to handle it.

Byron · Nov 09, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

i Ran it today in GvG , i Ran:

13 Divine
14 Healing

(650 Hp)

Healers Boon (new name for revitalise)
Orison (150 Point heal) - Self heal
Words of comfort (130ish If not condition, 200 with one Condition) - Self heal
Dwaynas Kiss (See above)
Infuse (note, this is over 700 points, overheal spike ftw)
Sig of Devotion - Energy Management, top up
Sig of Rejuvination - Energy Management, Top up
Purge Signet - Only Used when Splitting

Any dedicated enchantment removal makes you a lowly infuser, only you don't have heal other. Not to mention all your condition and hex removal comes from...purge signet? Besides the obvious reasons for not using it: it provides no heal, and it has a 20 second recharge. And, heck, the obvious reasons are cast time and energy cost. Straight healing won't do enough against diversified teams, plus you would be the enemy's favorite (and most exploitable) target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

There is almost no reason to ever waste 5 points of monk energy for no heal save for the divine favor bonus.

I have to respectfully disagree. Removing a deep wound or damage-over-time condition(poison, disease, etc) is healing. Monks just have to prioritize their condition removals. And besides, if there is only one conidition on an ally (which is often the case), then mend ailment does no more than dismiss condition.

Divineshadows · Nov 09, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

from...purge signet? Besides the obvious reasons for not using it: it provides no heal, and it has a 20 second recharge. And, heck, the obvious reasons are cast time and energy cost.

purge signet has rocked ever since the activation time got lowered to 2 seconds. Monks use signet of devotion just fine, so activation time on purge signet is not a problem. It has no energy cost. If the other team is not pressuring your team enough that you cannot swap down to 0 energy (or less than 5 energy) to make use of this signet, then you are likely doing well anyway. To completely cleanse a warrior from all hate for 5 energy or less is a win in my book. Hexing teams get those hex stacks deep on your warriors and even just a few seconds of a warrior clean is not something they were prepared to deal with.

Drewfense · Nov 10, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I normally switch to a +15/+15 set so I can remove as many hexes and conditions as possible with purge signet.

Just a funny sequence of quotables...I still prefer mend ailment over dismiss if that wasn't obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

...purge signet? Besides the obvious reasons for not using it: it provides no heal, and it has a 20 second recharge.

Previously speaking about Dismiss Condition...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Dead wrong. There is almost no reason to ever waste 5 points of monk energy for no heal save for the divine favor bonus.

Retort

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I have to respectfully disagree. Removing a deep wound or damage-over-time condition(poison, disease, etc) is healing. Monks just have to prioritize their condition removals. And besides, if there is only one conidition on an ally (which is often the case), then mend ailment does no more than dismiss condition.

I dunno, the whole arguement doesn't even make sense to me. I dont see a possible situation where dismiss is greater than mend condi or ail unless you have a taint or massive aegis chain. There are three situations I can think of about condition removal.

1. Blind on a warrior...imo this should be mainly taken care of by a plague/mend touch or draw on midliner. If it is the monks job, Mend Condition wins...Dismiss if you really want to be able to self target.

2. Deep wound...if someone is getting spiked, yes removing is 100ish pt heal + subsequent healing that would be reduced, but why would you not want the additional +50-60 heal on a target that is being spiked...recharge doesn't matter, people aren't going to be ready to adren spike again in under 5 seconds. Hell if I am a BLight, I often use BLight to remove the deep wound just to get more healing. Mend Ailment by a large margin.

3. Pressure...disease, poison, bleeding. If you are playing conditions, all bars are going to be low and monks are going to be stress. Yes you can zoom through conditions quicker with dismiss than mend ail...but if the monks are already stressed for energy, I want to be getting 50-60 health for each condition. Furthermore, all these conditions are easily reapplied (an arrow shot for poison/bleeding...pretty much instant for taint) so just removing them randomly does very little.

4. Practically...Odds are you are playing a BLight. Use BLight to remove your own deep wound (see 2) and bring mend condi for everyone else...I should not be having to write that... Other players RC, ZB. Mend Touch or likely Ail. I could see someone trying to argue dismiss for ZB...but I really wouldn't buy it. Divert, you are so low on self heals already, mend ail. Heal monk, get a new build.

Byron · Nov 12, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Previously speaking about Dismiss Condition...

Retort

That would almost be GG if not for divine favor healing. Though, thanks for kinda correcting me.

Quote:

Practically...Odds are you are playing a BLight. Use BLight to remove your own deep wound (see 2) and bring mend condi for everyone else

That's how I rolled pre-nightfall. I still roll that way for BL monks. For divert or GoL, or whatever build can't fit in mend condition, it really becomes a matter of opinion. Anet has done a good job balancing monk condition removals, IMO.

Quote:

I dont see a possible situation where dismiss is greater than mend condi or ail unless you have a taint or massive aegis chain.

Mainly the recharge - that's my whole argument, really. Mend ailment is superior against condition pressure, obviously (no argument there). But 5 seconds is a long time when you have dragon slashers or thumpers providing deep wounds in bursts, and have no RC monk around. You could make an effective argument for mend ailment and draw on a midliner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by divineshadows

purge signet has rocked ever since the activation time got lowered to 2 seconds. Monks use signet of devotion just fine, so activation time on purge signet is not a problem. It has no energy cost.

Yeah, um - i'm not a purge signet hater. It's very effective if the monk uses it correctly, and personally, I love to get the extra mileage out of it. My problem was that this was his only condition removal, which is simply unacceptable (for obvious reasons).

Dragannia · Nov 12, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I dislike Purge on a Monk. Signet of Devotion is painful enough to cast already, why would you want another 2 second cast time? It's not like a Mesmer with Expel is at a huge disadvantage anyway. I suppose some teams will have to do with a Purge on a Monk if they don't have a Mesmer.

Neo-LD · Nov 12, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

1. I said almost no reason, because there are probably some cooky situations you can cook up where it might be worth it.

2. In almost all actual situations, including the one you mention (dragon slash / thumper pressure) removing a condition (even a deep wound) with almost no simultaneous healing is not worth 5 of my energy. Its much, much better to let your target take a bit of damage so you can clear the whole thing with B-Light. Against pressure you must be thinking about maximum efficiency, and using dismiss on non-enchanted targets is just about the least efficient thing you can do.

Quote:

I dislike Purge on a Monk. Signet of Devotion is painful enough to cast already, why would you want another 2 second cast time? It's not like a Mesmer with Expel is at a huge disadvantage anyway. I suppose some teams will have to do with a Purge on a Monk if they don't have a Mesmer.

Whats there to dislike? I've had SoD on practically every monk bar Ive used for more than a year and a half, and the 2 second cast time is just fine. Arguments like "its too slow" only indicate fundamental misunderstanding of how to use the skill. You dont use it to save incoming spikes, you use as a free means to top off bars and push back against predictable, non-lethal (for the moment) damage, such as degen. For that purpose, SoD could be 3s long for I care, itd still be ok. Purge Signet is the same way; its cast time is irrelevent because you can afford to take your time casting it. That warrior will still be there, good and hexed, by the time you finish casting your purge. Lastly, its not like a monk stands around casting the whole game. Theres a significant percentage of each match that you will spend moving, kiting, and just plain old waiting. Monks that cast non-stop will run themselves dry, so using some of that spare time to cast a purge is just fine.

My problem with Purge on monks right now has more to do with skill slots. Purge Sig is an awesome skill but I want Gift, BL, Rev, Dev, some prot spells like SoA or PS/SB, and then either mesmer management, assasins ninjitsu, or GoLE... running out of space

JR · Nov 12, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Whats there to dislike? I've had SoD on practically every monk bar Ive used for more than a year and a half, and the 2 second cast time is just fine. Arguments like "its too slow" only indicate fundamental misunderstanding of how to use the skill.

Which is why I ran Remove Hex for a while; the 2 second cast time didn't bother me, and I liked the quick recharge hex removals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draggania

I dislike Purge on a Monk. Signet of Devotion is painful enough to cast already, why would you want another 2 second cast time? It's not like a Mesmer with Expel is at a huge disadvantage anyway. I suppose some teams will have to do with a Purge on a Monk if they don't have a Mesmer.

It is far easier to sacrifice the slot for Purge on one of your monks, than it is on one of your offensive characters. It doesn't lock you down to a set secondary, and you aren't gimping the offensive ability of a bar by taking away one slot at a time when there are so many awesome skills that you have to pick from already.

It's like people who run Expell on a Mesmer instead of Surge. Admittedly I used to be a big fan of Expell, but right now defensive VoD oriented builds are fairly common. To get kills against them that matter you need all of the offensive power possible, and Surge is godly.

It is also easier to manage Purge on a Monk I think, especially as you may want to time it with an adren spike for example - where you want your offensive casters doing their own thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Mainly the recharge - that's my whole argument, really. Mend ailment is superior against condition pressure, obviously (no argument there). But 5 seconds is a long time when you have dragon slashers or thumpers providing deep wounds in bursts, and have no RC monk around. You could make an effective argument for mend ailment and draw on a midliner.

Put simply: If you have a Draw or your partner Monk is an RC, you run Mend Condition every time for the efficient heal it gives. If you don't - or you plan on having the Monks split from each other - then you run Ailment for it's efficiency against condition stacks. If you have a build with Enchant spam such as Taint/Aegis chain then Dismiss is justifiable over either of them, otherwise the only thing going for it is the recharge/self removal, and that really isn't that amazing.

The Omniscient · Nov 16, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Didn't glimmer of light heal for 100+?

Drewfense · Nov 16, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

No, I don't think it ever did. The recharge used to be 1 second though.