Curse

Zall · Nov 30, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

I've been lurking on observe for the last few days and noticed that one of the new warrior elites is seeing use. It made me laugh at first but it actually looked like it worked.
Using Steady Stance with the self knockdowns Drunken and Desperation Blow for quite a bit of nearly free +damage, a random condition and adrenaline for fueling other squishie hate. I doubt dropping IAS and speed buff simply for something that's "decent" would happen.
Could these at first sight useless (my sight atleast) skills actually be a bit imbalanced when used in this combination ?

Byron · Nov 30, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Yep, its the new fashion of champion farming. It generally contains 2 motivation paragons, which are the primary healers, and some combination of the following:

Martyr/orders or OoV/runner orders (1-2)
W/R with pet, IWAY, and steady stance/drunken/desperation (3-4)
R/x oath trapper with NR, NR/tranq, and/or energizing winds (1)

More or less IWAY reloaded; abusing skills/spirits and killing quickly.

Patrograd · Nov 30, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Its a massively imbalanced skill combination, but I am noticing on obs quite a few teams beating it now through good old fashioned splitting. This build has practically no means of keeping NPCs alive other than paragons, and a power split with your main offence in their base and all your defence just turtling and focussing purely on keeping the BG and monks alive seems to do the trick on every map but burning, where you are a little screwed unless you can really, really quickly clear a path through the sentinels

Havent seen anything beat this in a straight up fight yet, its too much pressure. I have seen it powering through very high ranked two and even three paragon holding builds in minutes. fear me spam together with sweltering heat is the other part of the build Byron neglects to mention. fear me from 4 warriors specced to 13 tactics, -4, every 2 hits, which is huge energy denial in its own right

scamPOR · Nov 30, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I haven't seen it with sweltering heat.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 30, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

IWAY will never die. ever.

Byron neglected that often dervishes are the ones putting up orders. They also don't use a scythe iirc.

Patrograd · Nov 30, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

I haven't seen it with sweltering heat.

Powers fear me and the paragon shouts, thus powering the healing, the edenial and the damage of the build. Stronger than the other spirit versions imo

Thom Bangalter · Nov 30, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

QZ alone makes heal party cost 20 energy.

scamPOR · Nov 30, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Steady + drunken is already enough for fear me. You can spam that pretty much all the time... no real need for more adren gain.

Kabale · Nov 30, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Powers fear me and the paragon shouts, thus powering the healing, the edenial and the damage of the build. Stronger than the other spirit versions imo

Agreed, but still haven't seen it myself either. The only spirit I have seen used is QZ (not even NR/TQ, but I haven't seen that many different teams, just Nox's). I believe you still need the Oath Shot if you plan on having a spirit last longer than 10 seconds in this metagame.

Does it beat the Spoil Victor/Reaper's Mark builds? Or hex builds in general?

JR · Nov 30, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

Does it beat the Spoil Victor/Reaper's Mark builds? Or hex builds in general?

From what I have seen, yes. Hex builds take too long to get rolling, and generally involve too many squishies. By the time you would normally be pressuring health bars on their team you are probably full wiping and being pushed back.

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

finally a pressure build that works.

The Silver Star · Nov 30, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Well i played againt this a few days ago, at first we were spiking them down rather fast and didnt seem to take and pressure but after 4 mins the pressure suddenly kicked in and we dropped, however if you do run a Energysing Finale and Incoming then it might not be such a problem and.. a lot of epople run this

Zeldawind · Nov 30, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zall

I've been lurking on observe for the last few days and noticed that one of the new warrior elites is seeing use. It made me laugh at first but it actually looked like it worked.
Using Steady Stance with the self knockdowns Drunken and Desperation Blow for quite a bit of nearly free +damage, a random condition and adrenaline for fueling other squishie hate. I doubt dropping IAS and speed buff simply for something that's "decent" would happen.
Could these at first sight useless (my sight atleast) skills actually be a bit imbalanced when used in this combination ?

My first thought on it was aswell that it was ridiculous until we started running it.
Then i quickly noticed that it was working. But really its a great answer against the eurospike. Because the steady stance warriors go through the nrg that monks will get from energizing finale and then drain the rest of their energy. Only some good teams manage to beat it whose positiong is better then most of the average teams around.

But now what kabale said this build cant beat hex teams atleast if they use the right skills on the right targets. But this is really a farming build not a real ladder build or something like that. Cuz you can't beat a good team whit it really.

Zeldawind · Nov 30, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Yep, its the new fashion of champion farming. It generally contains 2 motivation paragons, which are the primary healers, and some combination of the following:

Martyr/orders or OoV/runner orders (1-2)
W/R with pet, IWAY, and steady stance/drunken/desperation (3-4)
R/x oath trapper with NR, NR/tranq, and/or energizing winds (1)

More or less IWAY reloaded; abusing skills/spirits and killing quickly.

First of all NR NR/tranq and enerigizing winds why do you want those.... Energizing is more helping to the other team, NR/Tranq uhm NR is more for hex builds really but you dont have any interruption whit a trapper so pointless except for stalling the inevitable and tranq for what aegis? who cares.
Then martyr/order not really usefull either look at the paragorns better. and it should be runner in both ways.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 30, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

try casting prodigy on a 2 second cast. It's just there to slow down the other team so you can beat the crap out of them. Energizing wind makes all monk spells cost minimum 10 energy.

Patrograd · Nov 30, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Energizing wind makes all monk spells cost minimum 10 energy.

if this is true then is this new bahaviour from energizing? It used to be that it wouldn't reduce a 15 energy spell's cost below 10, not inrease 5 energy spells to 10

is it broken then?

Quote:

Nature Ritual. Create a level 1 Spirit. For non-Spirit creatures within its range, all skills cost 15 less Energy (minimum cost 10 Energy), and skills recharge 25% slower than normal. This Spirit dies after 30 seconds

.

Zeldawind · Nov 30, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

try casting prodigy on a 2 second cast. It's just there to slow down the other team so you can beat the crap out of them. Energizing wind makes all monk spells cost minimum 10 energy.

A E/Mo whit ether prod and HP can't keep a team up and QZ hurst a lot more but if the emo is spamming heal party he should be out of range anyway. So the ehter prodigy comment is rather useless. But if the ele is still in range then his positioning is wrong because HP range is bigger then spirit range.

O EW isnt broken it wont increase nrg cost from spells to 10 nrg but energizings helps whit things like HP or other big nrg spells and 25% of 2 second is 0,5 second then the HP has 2.5 second recharge meh doesnt hurt that much really.

JR · Nov 30, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

if this is true then is this new bahaviour from energizing? It used to be that it wouldn't reduce a 15 energy spell's cost below 10, not inrease 5 energy spells to 10

is it broken then?

.

He means Quickening Zephyr.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 30, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

My bad

and regardless of positioning, if you get pushed back to base, you're screwed on spirit range.

Byron · Nov 30, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

From my meager understanding of the evolving build, the use of NR/tranq in combination with EW is to screw over passive prot and limit active prot. Where an aegis chain or bonds/barriers might be an effective counter, those spirits really don't allow it.

I'm sure Anet just overlooked the effects of steady stance on the drunken/desperation tactic. Some combo that provides e-management, spammable deep wound, and enormous damage buffs is clearly broken. Shame on those who abuse it. It will be fixed, hopefully sooner rather than later.