Curse

TimTimTimma · Nov 01, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Glimmer is pwnage, I've given Zealous a look through, but in all honesty i do not think its that great of a skill....

Glimmer of Light >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zealous Benediction

moriz · Nov 01, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

glimmer now replaces RoF on my new "boon prot". even at 9 healing, it's pretty nice.

linh · Nov 01, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

glimmer now replaces RoF on my new "boon prot". even at 9 healing, it's pretty nice.

At 9 Healing, it heals for only 61, that's terrible low.

1/4 casting time and 2s recharge can't make it a good elite with low amount of health. (Only better than Orison)

moriz · Nov 01, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

actually, it's better than RoF. and that's about all i really care about.

Bugeater · Nov 01, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Good post Drew. There's a bunch I wanted to respond to so I didn't [QUOTE] for formatting purposes.
"Enchanters Conundrum (2/5) -> Rediculous spike potential. Conundrum + Shatter = 170 armor ignoring damage."
Just a clarification: this is great spike potential on a balanced team. Since it's a hex you won't be having 4 of these guys spiking 1 target.

"Glimmer of Light (5/5) -> 1/4 second cast, heals for crap. Not enough to counter a spike, 1/4 cast unnecessary versus pressure. It is an elite orison and orison is one of the worst skills in the game "
I concur - can someone please explain how I'm missing how this is a good skill?

"ZB (3/5) -> Really good in combination with a Blight, see above."
ZB really shines against degen teams, but loses a lot of it's side effect against a pressure spike team. I didn't like it, but I've heard people rave about it so I'm slow to pass judgement.

"Rampage as One (2/5) -> Broken x10."
QFT Good god, why are there even traditional thumpers anymore?

"Burning Arrow (2/5) -> It is a lot of damage (+25ish with 3ish seconds burning)"
This strikes me as kind of a niche skill. Since spammable short duration burning is pretty easily doable with other Nightfall skills, this seems to have some undesirable overlap.

"Destructive Chop (3/5) -> Sex on adren spikes. Use Burst of Aggression."
I still don't like it much do to the energy/adren loss. Plus once you reveal it, you'll be blackout candidate numero uno.

"Magehunter's Smash (2/5)"
This really should be vs hex to warrant elite status. Especially with all the enchantment removals floating around now.

""Your All Alone!" (3/5) -> It isn't bugged"Agree 100%

"Crippling Slash (3/5) -> I think once people start using this it will be addictive. It is a 10+ second cripple that is covered by bleeding."
I ran this for a couple of matches and wasn't terribly impressed. I'll still stick to one of the Factions sworders.

"Steady Stance (1/5) -> Steady Stance + Drunken Blow spam = hilarious."
I agree completely, but it's not really all that good.

A couple that seem like they have a lot of promise that people haven't mentioned much:
Spoil Victor: Since it hits when the foe targets a creature, it includes both allies and foes. Seems pretty versitile since you can blast both Warriors and Monks alike.

Vow of Strength: One of the best DPS boosts available, especially when combined with IAS - seems like it would be great in pressure builds. And it doesn't disable your attack skills so you can still build adren.

Tease: This looks like it could just be devastating if you get it covered. With careful play and a supporting anti-attack skill you don't really have to worry about the side effect.

Magebane Shot: Lock an load. A Ranger interrupt with insta-recharge a large part of the time.

Drewfense · Nov 01, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

actually, it's better than RoF. and that's about all i really care about.

Ok in the context of a boon prot with 9 healing, say Glimmer is better than RoF.

Glimmer is now you core skill for late reaction to a spike. If you run Gift of Health on the same bar, you are putting yourself at great risk. Therefore your only healing spell is like Glimmer (maybe something accessory like Vigorous, but unlikely). You are spending 8 points into healing (and a vitae rune) to get Glimmer.

Energy management increases the power of all of your spells. To get glimmer, you are sacrificing elite energy management (even though it was nerfed, it is still a sacrifice). Saying you bring pdrain is inconsequential since you can just as easily bring pdrain with RoF. You are spending an elite to get Glimmer.

Direct comparison of Glimmer to RoF. Glimmer heals for 60. Under the most pessimistic calculations (a wand attack), RoF will average a 33 point heal. In a realistic situation pressure situations a RoF will normally hit 60, in it normally gets 100+. Glimmer gives you guaranteed healing, RoF does not. RoF used correctly gives higher gauranteed healing. Is sacrificing 8 healing and an elite worth it?

Drewfense · Nov 01, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

"Magehunter's Smash (2/5)"
This really should be vs hex to warrant elite status. Especially with all the enchantment removals floating around now.

Spoil Victor: Since it hits when the foe targets a creature, it includes both allies and foes. Seems pretty versitile since you can blast both Warriors and Monks alike.

Wow. If Magehunter's Smash was like that...it would be fun (and balanced imo). I don't think they would make that change, but I think it would be a great addition.

Spoil Victor is sick and needs to be nerfed. Regretfully I learned that the hard way when we lost to iQ two nights ago (2 Rampage as One Thumpers, Ether Prism spammer, Spoil Victor...all need to be fixed...except ether prism of course, they fixed that bug last night). If you coordinate a hex build correctly, it becomes a 100 damage scourge healing that lasts 30+ Seconds. Not enough? Put it on the warriors and it becomes a spiteful spirit from hell dealing 200 damage on a spike.

Summary:
100 damage + attacks and spells + 30+ second duration + 10 second recharge = horribly broken.

As for glimmer...I might just start a thread for this to logically prove my point. Glimmer isn't good at anything, but it doesn't suck at anything. There are non-elite skills better than it for every possible function so saying it is better than any single skill is incorrect. Saying it is adaptable and can function in almost any situation to a moderate degree (and thus warrenting its elite status) is correct. This isn't just theoretical musings, if you make a Glimmer build, its versatility should be considered and the build should be designed to abuse it, not fit it as a new RoF for instance.

TimTimTimma · Nov 01, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

People don't take the cast time into consideration when looking at this skill and comparing it to orison, Orison casts in one second, recharge in two. Glimmer Cast in 1/4 recharge in 2. In 9 seconds you can successfully cast glimmer of light 4 times, and only 3 with Orison in the same amount of time. If we take it to a gvg match that we say lasts, ehhh 15 minutes, you can use Glimmer over 400 times. Orison? Barely over 300.

Whats the difference? Well, assuming your not running boon or some other healing buff, lets say you are running 14 Healing and 11 Divine Favor. When casting Glimmer of Light once and only once you gain 116 points of healing because Glimmer sits at 81 at 14 healing, and 11 divine favor translates into 35 points of extra healing. When you execute Orison in the same way you gain 102 points of healing because you get only 67 at 14 healing and at divine you get the same 35 points of extra healing. Now that we know this, the base difference from the start is 16 points of healing.

Not alot? Well, over a 15 minute match the difference only grows with each cast after every minute for 15 minutes. In 15 minutes glimmer could potentially heal up to 48,720 points of damage. While Orison fails miserably and only heals 32,103 points of damage. Now I don't have to do the math to tell you that that is a huge difference, and obviously enough of to mean the difference between keeping a few players alive and having a few players die. The grand total for the difference between both spells in a 15 minute time frame is: 16,617 points of healing that no other spell is uncapable of producing in the time it is given, with the energy it requires.

Glimmer of lights cast time is very much the best part of the skill. No other spell casts in that fast of time,recharges in 2 seconds, and offers a greater than 100 heal except Infuse Health itself.

The only other spell I see that comes close to this amount of healing is sadly Word of Healing. And thats conditional healing, the next one in line would be Zealots Benediction. However this casts in 3/4 of a second, recharges in 4, and costs 10 energy. There is the chance to gain the 10 energy back, but again, this is conditional.

P.S. I would like to see that post Drewfense.

Khift · Nov 01, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

The extra duration on Incoming definitely makes it worth having it on a paragon primary. I've spent a good deal of time playing with a paragon with Incoming at 14 command and I can say at that spec it is amazing against pressure builds in addition to completely invalidating spike builds. At 14 command it lasts 7 seconds on a 20 second recharge meaning you can keep it up for a third of the time and has helped my team pull through countless almost-wipes where one or more people get semi-spiked from 2/3rd health. It gives your monks enough time to heal through and recover from bursts of pressure.

Also: Glimmer = shit. If I wanted a 1/4 cast heal I would take Reversal of Fortune and be a prot monk with an elite that actually does something. Sure, RoF is conditional while Glimmer isn't, but RoF doesn't take my elite slot and often times RoF heals for more than Glimmer does.

RandomEngy · Nov 01, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I've only tried out a few elites in RA, but my favorite ones so far have got to be Blinding Surge and "You're All Alone!" Blinding Surge is incredible because it's three times cheaper than flash, delivers as much damage as Lightning Strike (on a lower recharge), and to top it all off, can do AoE blind as well. You can blind multiple targets all day long, and leave enough energy to do decent damage on the side.

I played a "You're all Alone!" hammer warrior with Fierce, Heavy and Crushing and it works pretty nice as a spike, and with Signet of Malice for quick condition removal.

Spoil Victor is probably the weirdest Guild Wars skill I've ever used. The damage is just so huge (and armor-ignoring) that any time the target attacks your teammate, they always basically have the same amount of health, which means if one of your guys die, you can mop up the killer. It's crazy pressure, and applies to spirits too, so you can defend critical ranger or rit spirits with the threat of 300+ damage.

I have not tested it out yet, but I could definitely see a Focused Anger/Aggressive Refrain/"Go For the Eyes!"/"Find Their Weakness!" paragon dishing out some mean damage, while supporting damage to their teammates.

Dzan · Nov 01, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

Searing Flames - The big problem with this skill is, how are you going to pay for it? It's designed to be a 15 energy spammable skill... but you've got no EProd. (2/5)

I guess you missed the buff to Glyph of Lesser Energy. Combined with Fire Attunement and Glowing Gaze the energy management is downright amazing.

I still wouldn't give it more than a 2/5 though, because Fire Magic is like Healing Prayers: it makes red bars move in a direction and carries little or no utility, whereas other lines do the same thing and have utility.

P.S. the original poster got so many evaluations dead wrong that it would take a loooong time to point them out individually.

TimTimTimma · Nov 01, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

If I wanted a 1/4 cast heal I would take Reversal of Fortune

Reversal is a damage negator, not a heal.

Quote:

RoF heals for more than Glimmer does.

Reversal of Fortune negates a maximum of 84 at 16 Protection. Most of the time you won't see the full benefit of this skill. Glimmer heals for 81 at 14 Healing, and 85 at 15, all of which, if you are a decent monk and don't over heal, you will always see the full benefit of.

Elaborate how you plan to "negate" hex degen with reversal of fortune.

I find it incredibly humorous how when skills get even the slightest tiny nerf people automatically go "it sux now". I remember when blackout got nerfed the second time and people were going "omg, it sux now I am not using that skill". You only need 1 second blackout to remove all adrenaline. I don't know any mesmers, that use blackout, and use it on a Monk more then they do a warrior in gvg. Unless of course your facing a team whos monks have VERY BAD positioning, or your playing a front line caster. >_>

neoflame · Nov 01, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimTimTimma

If we take it to a gvg match that we say lasts, ehhh 15 minutes, you can use Glimmer over 400 times. Orison? Barely over 300.

Orison isn't that great to start with, and you've also spent over 2000 energy as opposed to barely over 1500, with your elite spot used up.

TimTimTimma · Nov 01, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

Orison isn't that great to start with, and you've also spent over 2000 energy as opposed to barely over 1500, with your elite spot used up.

I see where you are saying now, but the difference in energy spent against the amount of healing you get from spending the energy (assuming you NEED to spend that energy for a heal, and your NOT overhealing) is always worth it, if it means to save a party member. I can manage my energy well with two 10 energy skills 4 pips of regen and NO elite energy management, it will be much easier to manage my energy with a signet and only one 10 energy skill I use only occasionally, and the rest being 5 energy spells.

As far as elite slot goes the only other thing I would consider puting on my bar is Blessed Light.

WoH = CRAP

Zealous Benediction = Is a Heal Other speced in prot, with a very dangerous conditional energy bonus.

What Monk elite would YOU suggest I use that offers healing and is energy efficient for the amount you get out of it?

JR · Nov 01, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Glimmer is good for one reason. It is a jack of all trades, but master of none. This is why when comparing it to other skills that perform ASPECTS of the job Glimmer fills you are not really looking at the big picture.

-It is a spammable and decently efficient heal.
-It is fast enough to save non-instant spikes (eg: adren spike)
-It is a solid self heal (complimenting infuse)

So in the past where a heal monk would have to have a far less efficient spammable (Orison/Kiss), be limited to infuse for spike saves, and have to take a weak self heal like Orison or a slightly better but inflexibile one like Healing Touch... You now can just take Glimmer. This gives you more room on your bar to take energy management or utility skills, you have less of a problem with interrupts or long casts whilst trying to kite, you are stronger and more flexible.

The point of Glimmer is that it has very minor benefits in all fields, but due to it's nature you will use it so much that these minor benefits are suddenly far more important.

I agree that against standard two warrior adren/caster assist builds that a B-Light as about as good as it gets. However you really can't garauntee that this is what you will be facing. Glimmer much like the skill it's self does not excell against any build (except possibly the synergy with infuse making it great against spike), but it is not weak against any.

Apart from Signet of Humilty, which will make you cry.

TimTimTimma · Nov 01, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Apart from Signet of Humilty, which will make you cry.

Humilty = Rapes fast recharge elites.

Lambentviper · Nov 01, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

imo, the OP didnt spend much time assessing all the elites and finding their real strengths....2/5 on Shadow's Prison because it "might be ok to harrass flaggers"

hmm well maybe more thought could have revealed that the resulting hex can trigger many high damageing, and over condition creating assassin attack skills that lead to a main or key dual attack a lot faster than would normally be allowed. The whole shadow-step effect of the skill makes it more preffered than any other ranged cast hex.

Shadow Meld {E} - "a crappy version of AoD" ? i do believe its the same exact thing >.>

and Shameful Waste has been renamed to Wastrell's Collapse

FireBolt · Nov 02, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

The point is, with the skill like Holy Haste, you can make up the "awesome" fast cast of Glimmer of Light. Or even... use an elite like Healer's Boon which gives you the fast cast with an increased heal.

The point is, you use an elite for the reason of fast cast, you all compare "RoF" is conditional, yeah its also not an elite.

Another thing not mentioned, if your saving spike with Glimmer, most often or not there's a deepwound applied. Your weak Glimmer of Light would not even save you from a decent adrenaline spike. With reversal, and spec prot line, you could more than likely pre-prot and reversal to save the spike. Or, if you were using holy haste with WoH or something, you can still catch a spike with a 1/2, while giving a good enough to heal to save the spike.

Glimmer of Light gives low heal for trade off of fast cast where there are other options to make up for the fast cast to give a good heal, making this elite, not too great.

Xasew · Nov 02, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Almost all Monks use some kind of enchantment(s), so Holy Haste is gonna end quite often. An example: someone gets spiked and you prot him with Prot Spirit continued with Orison. Holy Haste just ended and Orison is suddenly slow as hell.

JR · Nov 02, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote: