Curse

Divineshadows · Jan 05, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

Mo/A goes with feigned neutrality or shadow refuge and a speed/shadowstep boost.

Speed or shadowstep skills on a monk such as dark escape, dash, return, and perhaps even shadow of haste are reasonable to use on a monk. Feigned neutrality or shadow refuge are a no go -- just go back and read the skill descriptions and you'll understand why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

Dervish goes with mystic regen and a speed boost.

Might work. Depends highly on the monk bar though. To help mystic regen, you'd probably want prot spirit in addition to holy veil. And prot spirit is meh for TA/RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

Warrior goes heal sig (scary but true) and a speed boost. Ele goes glyph of sac/lesser nrg and storm djinns haste.

You were at the edge of the cliff when you started suggesting mystic regen on a monk. You just jumped off when you mentioned heal sig, glyph of sac, and storm djinn's haste (monk flag runners in GvG are an exception for this skill).

Ensign · Jan 05, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

(and why not go with the vs. blunt mod with all the rampage thumpers running around?).

Because you want the daze reduction mod that helps bail you out against the nastiest thing they can do to you.

Peace,
-CxE

azathothx · Jan 05, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Speed or shadowstep skills on a monk such as dark escape, dash, return, and perhaps even shadow of haste are reasonable to use on a monk. Feigned neutrality or shadow refuge are a no go -- just go back and read the skill descriptions and you'll understand why.

Feigned neutrality works great after a dark escape. Lets you get out of combat and regen, then quickly get back into the action. I have seen many many monks using this and as someone who has got numerous glad points using this build, i can vouch for it's veracity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Might work. Depends highly on the monk bar though. To help mystic regen, you'd probably want prot spirit in addition to holy veil. And prot spirit is meh for TA/RA.

Prot spirit is handy in TA for protecting yourself as a monk or for stopping initial spikes. I personally run an Aegis as it stops assassin ganks out of the gate. Mystic regen works fine when you are dumping reversal of fortune on yourself and featherfoot grasp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

You were at the edge of the cliff when you started suggesting mystic regen on a monk. You just jumped off when you mentioned heal sig, glyph of sac, and storm djinn's haste (monk flag runners in GvG are an exception for this skill).

I have seen several Mo/E's using storm djinns to get out of danger and i've also seen heal sig's and sig of sacs used regularly. I play RA and TA an awful lot and i see these builds all the time. This wasn't an example of what i'd use and at no point did i stipulate this. I was simply saying that those additions are cookie cutter utilities seen all over the arenas. Which they are.

Divineshadows · Jan 05, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Because you want the daze reduction mod that helps bail you out against the nastiest thing they can do to you.

Peace,
-CxE

You pair this with a recovery rune I assume? Do these mods/runes reduce the remaining duration of conditions you draw to yourself? Does the pairing make the dazed last only 60% of normal or 64% of normal? At 14 beast mastery, bestial mauling is 19 second dazed so it becomes 11.4 (which the game rounds down to 11 I think) if it is 60%; otherwise it is 12.16 if is 64%.

For TA, I think the decision to bring a reduced dazed duration shield is a no brainer, but to actively have it in one of your weapon slots for every match that you see rampage thumpers is not so much. The armor v. blunt shield just reduces so much damage over time and if your build has support for the monk to deal with dazed (i.e. someone else in the team build is using mending touch, purge signet, or purge conditions AND the monk has purge signet as well) then it never becomes much of an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

Feigned neutrality works great after a dark escape. Lets you get out of combat and regen, then quickly get back into the action. I have seen many many monks using this and as someone who has got numerous glad points using this build, i can vouch for it's veracity.

Feigned neutrality ends if you use a skill. Any skill at all. Any smart team will be simultaneously pressuring another target forcing you to end it only one or two seconds in. It's the same reason you don't want to use bonneti's defense or restful breeze on your monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

Prot spirit is handy in TA for protecting yourself as a monk or for stopping initial spikes. I personally run an Aegis as it stops assassin ganks out of the gate. Mystic regen works fine when you are dumping reversal of fortune on yourself and featherfoot grasp.

You meant featherfoot grace, right? So you want to spec into prot, divine favor, healing prayers (if you're running gift), earth prayers (@8 for 3 regen per enchant), and wind prayers (anything less than 6 and this skill is not worth its energy cost)? Wow, your attributes are spread all over the place and the end result is a very inefficient monk.

Prot spirit is a completely underpowered skill in 4v4 arenas. The energy cost is high and number of damage packets that are > 10% of your health against the best teams (which are the ones you should be trying to beat) are very few. You're simply not going to reduce enough damage to justify the 10 energy spent. If you're going to run one of the expensive prots, then run spirit bond (but you should have one of your weapon sets with an enchanting mod). Two triggers on spirit bond and you've justified the energy spent. Anything beyond is just gravy. Aegis is good in many GvG metagame states, but a complete waste in 4v4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azathothx

I have seen several Mo/E's using storm djinns to get out of danger and i've also seen heal sig's and sig of sacs used regularly. I play RA and TA an awful lot and i see these builds all the time. This wasn't an example of what i'd use and at no point did i stipulate this. I was simply saying that those additions are cookie cutter utilities seen all over the arenas. Which they are.

I have seen monks in RA run all kinds of garbage on their bar. This does not make it "cookie cutter utility". The whole point of a monk kiting is to reduce incoming damage while simultaneously letting your energy regen fill back up your blue bar. Storm djinn's haste certainly buffs your ability to kite, but completely defeats the equally important second purpose of kiting.

Glyph of sac? What exactly on a monk's bar would one want to use glyph of sacrafice on? If the answer is a hard rez, then that is one dumb PvP monk bar.

I have seen monks on occassion use healing signet with balanced stance (good skill) and some varying 2nd stance (usually a not so good skill) from the tactics line. Just because I have seen a couple monks do this in TA, this does not make it good. My team still proceeded to beat the crap out of them. Healing signet has about the same recharge as signet of devotion and the same activation time. Yet healing signet cannot be used on other allies and has a -40 armor penalty. These monks fail.

Absum · Jan 05, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Feigned neutrality ends if you use a skill. Any skill at all. Any smart team will be simultaneously pressuring another target forcing you to end it only one or two seconds in. It's the same reason you don't want to use bonneti's defense or restful breeze on your monk.

I used to share the same opinion about feigned neutrality. My philosophy is that, as the only full support character on a TA team, a monk shouldn't have self-sustaining skills that prevent them from supporting the rest of their team for any period of time. However, I have seen how it can be used efficiently, especially on a team that lacks some defense against overkill melee or gank tactics(shadow prison, gale+savannah, dervish aoe bombs). It's also a life saver for a monk under dazed pressure... if they're dazed and under melee pressure they won't be doing much healing anyway, amirite?!

Still not my favorite skill on a monk bar, but I definately no longer have a completely negative opinion of it after seeing quality monks use it very well.

Ensign · Jan 05, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

For TA, I think the decision to bring a reduced dazed duration shield is a no brainer, but to actively have it in one of your weapon slots for every match that you see rampage thumpers is not so much.

If you have off-Monk condition removal (which you often do), then you'll not be needing a daze shield. If you don't, my experience has been that the daze from a thumper is an order of magnitude more dangerous than the damage that kills you under daze.

Peace,
-CxE

Thomas.knbk · Jan 05, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you have off-Monk condition removal (which you often do), then you'll not be needing a daze shield. If you don't, my experience has been that the daze from a thumper is an order of magnitude more dangerous than the damage that kills you under daze.

Peace,
-CxE

If you don't, the daze is going to kill you no matter what. Beastial Mauning is 19 seconds of daze at 14 BM. 20% reduction would make that 15. That's more than enough to kill a monk, so the only way to save you from a dazing thumper is off monk condition removal. If the reduction doesn't save you, you might as well take +armor vs blunt.

(wtf did I just disagree with ensign?:S)

Divineshadows · Jan 05, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

If you don't, the daze is going to kill you no matter what. Beastial Mauning is 19 seconds of daze at 14 BM. 20% reduction would make that 15. That's more than enough to kill a monk, so the only way to save you from a dazing thumper is off monk condition removal. If the reduction doesn't save you, you might as well take +armor vs blunt.

(wtf did I just disagree with ensign?:S)

I believe that Ensign's perspective is from monking in RA where you can obviously not expect to have teammates with off-monk condition removal or you have a warrior, assassin, dervish, or ranger with mending touch but have no clue that they can actually use the skill to help out their monk.

In RA, most of the attention from the opposing team just gets all thrown onto the monk. I can see where a 40% dazed reduction would help. Even while dazed you can get shield of absorption and reversals on yourself by kiting and carefully timing the use of your skills. The point is to reduce the amount of time from which you are restricted from using the longer cast times on your skill bar such as zealous benediction and/or gift of health.

Thomas.knbk · Jan 05, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

I believe that Ensign's perspective is from monking in RA where you can obviously not expect to have teammates with off-monk condition removal or you have a warrior, assassin, dervish, or ranger with mending touch but have no clue that they can actually use the skill to help out their monk.

In RA, most of the attention from the opposing team just gets all thrown onto the monk. I can see where a 40% dazed reduction would help. Even while dazed you can get shield of absorption and reversals on yourself by kiting and carefully timing the use of your skills. The point is to reduce the amount of time from which you are restricted from using the longer cast times on your skill bar such as zealous benediction and/or gift of health.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. For a moment I was afraid I really was disagreeing with what ensign said.