Curse

Dannzzigg · Dec 28, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

First, a little backstory.

My guild is looking to become more involved with GvG. Early on in the BWEs and again towards the 6 months prior to the release of factions, we GvG'd semi-regularly.

One of our members plays almost exclusively monk. He has not played since prior to the release of Factions, and as such, only has Core and Proph skills available. Way back then, Boon Prot was a definate advantage to have.

With the heavy use of dis-enchantment skills, is Boon Prot still viable in GvG? I'm not talking about top-end matches, but in the normal world of competetive play. I know some nerfs, like the one to OoB and to MoR have made for limited effectiveness as well, but I was thinking about an EDrain build for him.

So... is Boon Prot still a way to go, or is the landscape too different to run that? If so, what might you suggest. We are just getting "back on the horse", so I don't expect him to run out and get either F or NF, so we will be working within the limits of Core and Proph skills.

This would be part of a two monk backline, with an Emo runner providing support as well. Our basic build is attempting to be a balanced build, hoping to deliver pressure.

So... Any pointers for a Monk with just that campaign to work with?

I should add that we are not trying to climb the ladder or anything like that- just win enough to be competetive and most of all, have fun with it.

deluxe · Dec 28, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

you can still run a boon prot with e-drain, it's a little less effective.
but with factions and nightfall out, there are just better alternatives.

Legendary Shiz · Dec 28, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

tbh, either your friend needs to buy the new campaigns or find a new profession.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 28, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Boon Prots are simply not worth running these days - with the nerfs to both boon and e-management, you have a high cost for very little return.

Bankai · Dec 28, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Boon prots are next to impossible to play right now. OoB is extremely risky and the inspiration line doesn't give enough energy to be viable. The only way it could've been played was with an EF paragon, but that's nerfed. The only (not really) viable monk build available to Proph/core is WoH, but it's still sub-par. Right now, Gift of health, Spirit bond, Blessed light and all the NF monk skills are just very important.

Schorny · Dec 29, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Boon prots are next to impossible to play right now.

With E-Drain and Channeling it is possible to run a boon prot. IIRC QQ ran such a monk a while during the season.

Though I agree: there are very strong alternatives and so I wouldn't run one. It is possible nonetheless

warriorsmiley · Dec 29, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

There are way better alternatives to boon prots. To be even to even semi-compete you need some of the new skills the older ones just dont cut it anymore.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 29, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

With E-Drain and Channeling it is possible to run a boon prot. IIRC QQ ran such a monk a while during the season.

QQ also ran Tommy as a warrior during the season, and Smgz as a monk. Oh yeah, and they went in with one monk at one point.

In other words, they ran a lot of random crap last season because they didn't care at all. While they also had some great builds (like their dual B-surge), I wouldn't assume that because QQ ran something last season that it's good.

Bankai · Dec 29, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

If Channeling works in Gvg, you already phail as a monk.

Derelict Daily · Dec 29, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Really nothing bad about boon prot... it just seems they started to be replaced by blessed light escapers. And now, in NF, the monk class scored big with elites like ZB, divert hexes, LoD, etc. As long as the player can effectively manage his energy, some of those new elites are hard to pass up.

Seamus Finn · Dec 29, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

But guys, he is talking about a guild that is re-entering the ladder and is looking to fight mid ladder opponents. With a skill balance looming, anything is possible, but I would say that you can run a boon prot and beat a rank 500 guild running thupers and searing flames. You would probably have to monk better than someone running a blight, but the build isn't ridiculously bad right now. Just clearly not as good as other builds out there.

stueyman2099 · Dec 29, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

If Channeling works in Gvg, you already phail as a monk.

If you run channeling in GvG, you're either really smart, or really stupid. You really need to know what you're doing to use that skill effectivley and not have it backfire on you. It is very much a viable skill for GvG.

Patrograd · Dec 29, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I think the question being asked is: what is the strongest Prophesies only monk build? If these guys havent GvG'd in a while I'm guessing they are probably PVE orientated, and so it is unlikely that they will want to spend money to be competitive by buying Nighfall.

For me its an interesting question (I'm sort of hoping that some of these AT's have skill restructions like this), and had me thinking back to the kind of monk builds that were run pre-Factions.

Boon prot was certainly the most popular, but as has been commented, was hit pretty hard. I think you can probably run a MOR/Edrain Boon, although its not as solid as it was by any stretch.

Before boon prots it seems that most backlines consisted of hybrid healer/prots using OOB (which you cant use any more with any degree of safety - maybe you could run something a little bit like:

Mo_E_Prophesies_monk

Monk/Elementalist
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Healing Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)

- Word of Healing [Elite] (Healing Prayers)
- Dwayna's Kiss (Healing Prayers)
- Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
- Holy Veil (Monk other)
- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Aegis (Protection Prayers)
- Glyph of Lesser Energy (Elementalist other)

Now I know that by current standards its a pretty sucky monk build, but it sort of does a job given such skill limitation. Would be interested to see if anyone has a better one.

warriorsmiley · Dec 29, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I dont know about WOH being a very viable elite because in order to get the bonus they have to be under 50% after the initial heal. I would prolly run RC over it.

Bankai · Dec 29, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

I dont know about WOH being a very viable elite because in order to get the bonus they have to be under 50% after the initial heal. I would prolly run RC over it.

Yeah, kind of forgot RC. Also a good elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

If you run channeling in GvG, you're either really smart, or really stupid. You really need to know what you're doing to use that skill effectivley and not have it backfire on you. It is very much a viable skill for GvG.

Sorry, I said it wrong. If you're overextending enough to get loads of energy from Channelling (which is what most monks that put it on their bar do in Gvg), you phail. If you run it skillfully, it's decent.

Oh, and it's not that bprot is still viable but replaced by slightly better blights (and now NF elite), but its that the emanagement got nerfed so badly that it's sub-par.

Patrograd · Dec 29, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

I dont know about WOH being a very viable elite because in order to get the bonus they have to be under 50% after the initial heal. I would prolly run RC over it.

the thing about WoH was always that at 5 energy and fast recharge it doesnt matter all that much if you get the bonus or not. if you do, great, if not, so what?

I also think the bug you allude to was fixed with the Sorrows Furnace update, but this is only second hand information, I've never tested it myself.

But you are correct, RC is a stronger skill in the current meta.

Manfred · Dec 29, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I'd say that it's still viable from a purely technical perspective. I was pretty surprised when boon prots didn't show back up during the wave of paragon energy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs, and there ARE some new eman skills that could surprise you (If I told you, that would spoil the secret) but I think the bigger concern is about grenth's dervishes and their ability to tear apart your average boon prot like tissue paper.

bluechestdude · Dec 29, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

yep doesnt help that divines boon been nerfed so if it gets removed u have to waste moer energy putting it back up (then it gets removed again) and then ur pretty much screwed for the game as u cant do nething...

Skuld · Dec 29, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

prehaps

11+1+1 prot
10+1 divine
10 tactics

Restore Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Signet of Devotion
Holy Veil
Protective Spirit
Shield Bash
Balanced Stance

enough healing? damn mend ailment sucks ¬.¬

JR · Dec 29, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Not having Gift of Health makes running Prot bars very difficult for a Prophecies only monk. As you pointed out - not enough healing.

I think Patro's Word Healer bar isn't bad - except I would take Orison over Dwayna's for a self heal, and swap the Divine/Heal specs around.